Existing draft · inherited source review / ecollar
The number on an e-collar remote means nothing on its own - the right level is the smallest one that gets a reaction from this dog, in this place, today.
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Answer
There is no number. Every trainer in this record says some version of the same thing: the figure on the remote is a reading you take against this dog, in this place, today, and it is worthless as an absolute. One trainer answers the question by refusing it three times in a row - "The number is determined by the context. The number is determined by the context. It is determined by the context and then their reaction." Another tells owners on camera not to quote the numbers they see in his videos, because a 10 and a 92 both appear in one walk with two different dogs. The same dog's number moves with the distraction in front of it, with how wound up it is, with how thick its coat is, with which unit is on its neck, and with how far through the program it is - and it moves down as often as up.
What you are looking for is the smallest reading that changes anything. On camera that is usually just the ears coming up, or a small head shake, or the dog reorienting and looking at you for the command. One trainer states it as a ceiling rather than a floor: "any kind of response that's all i want ... if you hit it your dog's like rolling around and everything ... you don't need to torture your dog and torment them." A level that produces no response at all is not the gentle option - it is discomfort with no information in it.
Where the trainers genuinely differ is where you start the search, and the record carries both answers because both are used here. Kelton, on a resilient dog that had already refused a recall, starts where it registers and comes down: creeping up from below "boils the frog" and leaves you permanently stuck at the top of the dial. Connor, teaching owners on Deuce and on Luna, starts at five or ten and climbs quickly to the first response, then stops: "i turn it up until the dog responds i don't like start high." Two context rules sit on top of both: with a strong bully breed one handler climbs fast on purpose, and with a puppy the ceiling is set low before the session starts, because past a certain pressure a young dog stops learning and only fights. Which route you take depends on the dog in front of you. Neither is wrong here.
(Inferred, not said on film: the two routes share a criterion even though they disagree about direction - a level that produces nothing is the failure, and both men stop the moment the dog answers. Nobody states that agreement out loud.)
Owner takeaway
Do not go looking for your dog's number. Before every session, set it against what is actually around you - an empty street at night is not a park - then press once and watch. Ears up, a head shake, or the dog turning back to look at you means it landed; nothing at all means go up; a yelp or a scramble means come straight back down. "For them, it depends on context, so don't get stuck on a number. More what matters is their reaction."
Across the cases
Deuce
A ten-month-old dog of ninety-six pounds, and the whole range of the idea is visible inside one program. On the day the collar goes on he is started at five and raised until it registers, and the criterion for accepting the level is not compliance but that he is still himself: it catches him off guard and he does not lose his bounce. Later the level is quoted as fifteen in the yard - "his sweet spot of like, 'Oh'" - and at the handover it is worked live from twelve or thirteen in a silent house, to eighteen with people and dogs in the room, to twenty-eight at the peak of a reunion, and back down to eighteen when the room settles. About thirty is named as his ceiling. Connor, teaching the owners, gives the method plainly: start at five or ten, turn it up until the dog responds, stop there, and never sit out on a sixty because that is torture territory. A level he does not react to is named as useless rather than kind.
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
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So, I have the e-collar set to about a 15 for him. Which he was pretty sensitive to in the yard. Um, that was like his kind of his sweet spot of like, "Oh."
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hey you callers not high enough I don't think right now he doesn't care about it that much it's just uncomfortable for him
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Finn
The dog the existing page was built on, and the one qualifier the page dropped. Finn is a flight risk who had already refused a recall and gone for the truck; the collar was turned up "relatively high" before he decided coming back was acceptable. Kelton's argument is made about this dog and hedged twice in the same breath - he is not feather-light, and the rule holds "if the dog presents that way." Earlier in the same case the same search is run from the other direction on camera: a level is tried, it does nothing, it is raised, and the trainer says so out loud when it lands.
then he was like, I'm going to go to the truck and didn't want to come back. So that's when I had to use the e-collar to negatively reinforce it and I had to end up turning it up relatively high for him to decide that coming back was okay.
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he's not super light, like he's not feather light on the e-collar unfortunately and it's
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Stormie
A bully-breed puppy, and the clearest disagreement in the corpus sits inside seventy-two hours of her own file. On 1 September her handler climbs the level fast on purpose and calls it a technique he is currently developing for the bully breeds coming through; on 2 September he says the same thing in one line - you just crank it up, they are really strong. On 3 September a different trainer sets the opposite rule before the session starts, as policy: she is young, too much pressure shuts her down, so less collar and more physical pressure through the hands, with its own limit of 'not overwhelming' and a shake-off as the tell it was right. That third version is the one the family is given at the handover, together with a warning not to sit on high. The same lesson also carries the asymmetric rule: the 'nope' marker is building an aversion so it can hardly be too high, while the reinforcement marker can be too high and will poison the command if it is.
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and obviously like training with bully breeds lately so of course I'm developing techniques that are making training bully breeds faster
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using less e-collar with her and just more physical pressure
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yeah just using more physical pressure with her um not overwhelming yeah that shake was really good that's what we're looking for
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Luna
A nervous husky mix, and the case where the level is most visibly hunted rather than set: five, then fifteen, then about thirteen, named on the day as her magic level. After that it moves for four separate reasons, each stated - the distraction in front of her, her own nerves, the seriousness of what she did, and her own change through the program, which took her to about twenty-five once she opened up. The go-home instruction puts the collar last rather than first: hands into position, repeated, and only then the button. Connor is also the handler who states the start-low rule most plainly, and who adds that he has only had to work that way with three dogs in this set.
so the big thing with her, I can already kind of tell, um, I'm gonna give you about like 13, that seems to be like the magic level for her
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There's almost no distraction right now, so the e-collar's turned down a ton For Luna.
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if it's a really aggressive dog, like I'm talking like really aggressive, like biting people, um the e-collar setting that I'm going to use if the dog doesn't sit is going to be a different level than like if the dog went and like bit somebody's leg at like full power, right?
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Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Dutchess
A strong Rottweiler who turns out to be sensitive, and the file that supplies the ceiling rather than the floor. Her working level is fifteen for an ordinary park walk, twenty when she is genuinely distracted, never past twenty, and it is dropped live below fifteen when a room turns out to be calm. The criterion given to her family is the smallest response there is - the ears - and anything bigger is named as tormenting the dog. Her breed is used as the argument against breed rules: the trainer says most Rottweilers he has worked sit at thirty or thirty-five. And her file corrects the commonest inference: a press that produced nothing may mean she was too absorbed to feel it, not that the level was too low.
what setting i have her i never go past the 20 20 is like if she's really distracted active 15 though is where she usually rests we're just walking in the park
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she's pretty sensitive which is is interesting because she's pretty strong usually the rottweilers aren't super sensitive to it like i find that a lot of rottweilers i've worked with hang on like a 30 35 but she's pretty sensitive
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So like right now that's even a little high for her. So she's, but it's really chill in here. That was a 15, so I'm going to put it down a little different.
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Probably she was so distracted she didn't feel it.
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like I said the word and I had to follow it with the e-collar. And again, I just kind of got that that shake thing, right? I don't want anything else more than that really. I don't want to jump.
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Sage
A soft dog who freezes, and the levels are correspondingly low: ten to fifteen on walks, fifteen to twenty as a starter in low distraction, twenty to twenty-five to back up a marker, never above about fifty. Kelton's owner-facing version is a three-way test rather than a number - not fazed means more, straight back to it in five seconds means more, a scream means it was too high - with one named exception, a road. He also tells her family the physical claim behind it: any level on the collar is safe, and the only way to hurt her with it is to leave it on tight for hours. With Sage specifically the answer to a failed rep is not more level but more clarity, more waiting and more space, because going harder makes her freeze.
a good starter level for her for a lot of stuff like just like if it's low distractions at 15 20 she responds well to that um if there's a lot of distractions and like she's kind of thinking about other stuff and like it's blowing you off then go up from there I don't think that I've used it with her higher than like a 50
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unless it was like a really like justified reason like as an example if if she was running into the road yeah make her yelp yelp or die choosing yelp right
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watch the ears if they bounce up every time you hit it it's working
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Kodak
Kodak and his housemate Rocko are the pair that break the scale. In one pack walk Kodak works at ten and Rocko takes a ninety-two, and the handler's own working ceiling is stated on the record as about forty - the ninety-two is called out as an outlier that did not stop the dog anyway. Rocko is also the dog the desensitisation warning is made about from the other side: he is tough with the collar, so too low a level is the dangerous option rather than the safe one. And the ten-thousand-dollar thought experiment is used with the owners to explain why no level wins against a big enough motivation. Twice on camera the viewer is told not to quote the numbers.
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he fixates hard and he's very persistent i mean that's like in terms of like the e-collar level that's the highest he's ever felt and all he i mean he let out a little squeal but like like that little like but like he didn't stop him no he's still like searching it like it didn't shut him off at all
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Roxy
Roxy and her housemate Ramsey are handed to their owners as two different shapes on the same dial: Ramsey steady at fifteen to twenty, Roxy anywhere from twenty to sixty "depending on what she's thinking about." The tell given to the owners is behavioural - she reorients and looks for the command - and the instruction is explicitly not to get stuck on a number. Ramsey's file is the clearest case of the level going down rather than up: as his impulse control improved the same stim outweighed a smaller impulse, so the working level was cut to ten and a ceiling of about twelve was handed over. At the go-home lesson the owner is asked who decides how high the collar goes and answers correctly: the dog.
for Ramsey, like a 15. Yeah, maybe a little higher, but it just depends on the circumstance, but not normally. That's very low, you'll barely feel a 15. And then for Roxy, it's wildly vary depending on the situation. So like it could be anywhere from like a 20 to like a 60. It totally depends on the context for her. Ramsey it's like pretty steady in that range like 15 to 20. Roxy it's like depends on what she's thinking about.
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whatever then like if you did a 60 she'd be like and you like that's completely unnecessary right. but if she's like looking over there and then like running over there and looking at stuff and then you did a 20 she'd probably blow it off um if she wasn't listening
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I tried it on a lower level, I had to turn it up, eh, okay, I really wanted to see those people. She was just blowing off the e-collar. She didn't care about that at all.
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Zeus
A very large dog, and the case that produced the refusal to give a number at all - said three times in a row, then made teachable with an analogy about tapping someone on the shoulder while they are absorbed against doing it while they are facing you. The working numbers follow: about twenty in a quiet house with nothing happening, up to around eighty for a ramped dog running at another dog, and a deliberate pre-emptive move from thirty-two to sixty-five before walking him toward a dog rather than escalating mid-incident. The feedback loop is stated in both directions - if he jumps and really freaks out it was too high for that context, and if a low level stops registering it has stopped being a level at all.
circumstance like this in the house nothing's happening you asked me to do something he doesn't do it maybe 20 right that's gonna be sufficient
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So if they go, oh, if Zeus jumps and freaks out, like really freaks out, then it was too high. So just turn it down. It's too high for that context.
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normally like in this kind of case no you're not getting the car if i if i know that he might do it i normally turn the collar up yeah what's it on now 32 32. put it on like a 65
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King
A thick-coated dog, and the one case where the high number is a property of the fur rather than the dog. His working level is cranked to about seventy-five and confirmed by a twitch, and a colleague notes that he reacts dramatically at a thirty-four that is nothing to him and rests easily on sixty - which is the plainest demonstration in the corpus that a big reaction is not proof of a high level. The alternative reading is supplied in the same exchange: a startle is not pain.
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Turn it down just a little bit because of the context. He's already kind of like, ooh, with the heel.
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Lola
Lola and Archie are the pair that show the number is not even a property of the dog - it is a property of the unit. Two collars in the same building differ by about thirty percent, so a twenty-four on the small-dog model feels like a thirty on the other, which makes every written level in this corpus unusable without the hardware attached. The owners are given a range rather than a number, with the distraction rule attached: twelve when he is calm, twenty when he is not. And Kelton's ten-thousand-dollar argument is made here at length, with the size rule explicitly rejected - big dog does not mean more pressure.
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So, I would say that both of them cuz this goes up to a 100. So, I would say both of them sit around like the 15 to 20 range.
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Because it has to be something that's going to more than the distraction
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Louie
Louie's file carries the fullest statement of the boiling-frog mechanism anywhere in the corpus, and it is framed as a kindness argument rather than a technical one: raising the level five at a time because you want to be nice to the dog acclimates him, so the level you end up needing is far higher than it had to be. In practice on Louie the same handler works low - about twenty-five - on the grounds that he is teaching escape from pressure rather than avoidance of it, and turns the level down when he judges a correction landed too hard.
it's on a pretty low level here because all I'm really doing is teaching him how to escape that pressure we're not teaching him how to avoid it yet because he can only avoid it if you if you know how so the escape portion teaches him how to escape the pressure and that's why I'm using the leash as a guiding mechanism to show him what to do to relieve the pressure
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Bullet
A green dog and a useful counter-case: the level is climbed from five in steps to find the threshold, and then walked back down to about eight because his reactions are wildly out of proportion to the stimulus. Kelton names the reason as psychological rather than physical - a twelve that would make a person laugh produces a scene - and the working level follows the dog's reaction downward. Sensitivity, not desensitisation, is the failure mode here.
That is a crazy reaction for a 12. So I think that that's a psychological thing for him now. If you felt a 12 on the seat collar, you would laugh your head off.
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Source excerpts
The number is determined by the context. The number is determined by the context. It is determined by the context and then their reaction.
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don't get hung up on the number on the screen because the number is relative to the dog and the context um it is not this absolute figure that like this is low and this is high
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any kind of response that's all i want so like most of the time i just want to see the ears so if i hit it there you go then like that's enough if you hit it your dog's like rolling around and everything it's what you like you don't like you don't need to torture your dog and torment them
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he's not super light, like he's not feather light on the e-collar unfortunately and it's
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better to not start really low because if you do it really low and he doesn't get the point and then you have to like gradually go up higher they have a bunch of studies where you it's like boiling the frog and then at the end result is you have to you've desensitized them now so the end result ends up being that instead of maybe you only needed it to have it on like a 50 now it's got to be like all the way up and so it's better to just start out high if the dog presents that way so that you don't have to end up always having it all the way up that's the best hope to have it lower
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to make the dog uncomfortable i turn it up until the dog responds i don't like start high i usually start at like five or ten and once i get something i get you know i don't like boost it up higher so deuce is sitting on about an 18 out of 100 so i'm not out here on like 60 just like plus it's not very productive it kind of starts to get in like torture territory
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the radius you start low and default and you keep like if they don't respond you keep hitting turn it up until they're like fine
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um funny enough all three of the dogs in this that i've had to do it with i usually don't
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So, what I did there, it's a thing that I do with the like the bully breeds. You just crank it up cuz they're just really strong cuz she was trying to fight me on heel.
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So with her, you start out with lower pressure, and then you can build into it.
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level don't think about the number at all the only thing that matters is what the reaction that it creates in the dog because any level on the collar is safe and won't create injury
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how does she respond to this if she isn't fazed by it it needs to be more if she goes right back to it five seconds later it isn't high enough needs to be more if she screams it was too high
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It's such that it shows that if you little by little raise the amount of stimulation, the end level that you end up having to use when you need to use negative reinforcement is much higher. So say you start at five and then you go to 10 and then at 15 and then to 20 and then to 25 and then to 30 and then to 35 and then to 40 because you want to be nice to your dog and you feel like that's the way to be nice with them you actually end up being less nice to them because you have now acclimated them to the collar
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because Rocco's a really excited dog, and he's a relatively tough dog when it comes to the e-collar, so I don't want him to be desensitized to it, such that it's no longer very effective
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So, you know, it's always a judgment call where I'm trying to make sure that I use the right level of negative reinforcement and the right level of positive reinforcement to get the right result, and sometimes you make the wrong call, you make the wrong judgment you have it too high or you have it too low and it's not effective
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For them, it depends on context, so don't get stuck on a number. More what matters is their reaction.
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If they do feel it and it's effective, they either reorient towards you and look for you to give them command if they've not listened to something.
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since he's learned everything and he has better impulse control which means like he's feeling a little like the e-collar to him is now stronger than the impulse i've actually turned it down a little bit so now we're on like a 10.
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I would, I would say like when you're doing the reinforcement marker, you have to be more careful. Whereas you don't have to be as careful with how high it is. it can be too low but the thing about the nope is that you're trying to build an aversion so it's more just like you're trying to make her be like that was a bad idea so whereas if you're doing a reinforcement it can be too high and they can build like weird aversions to command because they're like last time he told me to do this i didn't listen and then i got hit on like 65 and i don't want to do that again
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that was on that was a 92. and like i that is i you know i basically i like never use that like yeah like like these days i i i almost never go above a like like a 40
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don't worry about doing that. Like because who decides how high the e-collar is, you every time. Yep. The dog. That makes me happy that you said the dog.
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How the trainers explain it
Said on film: the level has to outweigh whatever else is competing for the dog at that moment - "it has to be something that's going to more than the distraction" - which is why the same dog needs a different number in an empty street at eleven at night than in a park, and why a dog with ten thousand dollars in front of him runs through anything. A level below that threshold is not the cautious choice: it is discomfort carrying no information, and on a tough dog it is actively destructive, because the dog acclimates and the number you end up needing rises permanently. That is the boiling-frog mechanism, stated most fully on Louie and most famously on Finn, and it is argued as a kindness claim: going up five at a time because you want to be gentle ends up being less gentle. The counter-technique accepts the same premise and attacks it from the other side: climb quickly rather than start high, so the dog reads the trend and answers early, and the top of the climb is never reached. Against both of those sits the other half of the record, which is about stopping rather than starting - the smallest visible response is enough, and anything past it is tormenting the dog.
Inferred, not stated: the two starting rules are less far apart than they look, because both are really rules about how long the dog is allowed to sit under a level that is doing nothing. Nobody on film says that, and nobody on film reconciles them.
Differences to review
Where the search starts. Kelton, on Finn: start where it registers and come down, because creeping up boils the frog. Connor, on Deuce and on Luna: start at five or ten and climb fast to the first response, then stop. Both cite the same goal - do not desensitise, do not hurt - and both were in the same field on the same afternoon on Deuce. The owner's decision (18 September 2026) is that this is context-dependent: two techniques with two rationales, both presented, neither called wrong.
First perspective
better to not start really low because if you do it really low and he doesn't get the point and then you have to like gradually go up higher they have a bunch of studies where you it's like boiling the frog
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It's such that it shows that if you little by little raise the amount of stimulation, the end level that you end up having to use when you need to use negative reinforcement is much higher.
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Second perspective
to make the dog uncomfortable i turn it up until the dog responds i don't like start high i usually start at like five or ten and once i get something i get you know i don't like boost it up higher
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the radius you start low and default and you keep like if they don't respond you keep hitting turn it up until they're like fine
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So, what I did there, it's a thing that I do with the like the bully breeds. You just crank it up cuz they're just really strong cuz she was trying to fight me on heel.
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So with her, you start out with lower pressure, and then you can build into it.
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This page's own earlier text is superseded. The concept `start-high-not-low` was published as "Starting too low desensitizes" with the plain-language answer "One he can actually feel, rather than a level you creep up from." That was sourced from one trainer on one dog and dropped the two qualifiers in his own sentence - "he's not feather light" and "if the dog presents that way." Three later cases state the opposite technique on camera. The slug and URL are kept; the one-sided text is not. The owner settled this on 18 September 2026: the page's question stays as it is and carries both techniques.
Starting too low desensitizes
Creep the level up and you train the dog to need more.
One he can actually feel, rather than a level you creep up from. Starting below what he notices teaches him to ignore it, and the level you end up needing is permanently higher.
Same dog, three days, two techniques. Stormie's handler climbs the level fast on 1 and 2 September and calls it a technique he is developing for bully breeds; on 3 September a different trainer sets a low ceiling for her before the session starts because she is a puppy who shuts down, and that is the version the family is given. Only the third reaches the owners.
First perspective
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Second perspective
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The two markers follow opposite rules on the same dial. The aversive 'nope' is building an aversion and can hardly be too high; the reinforcement marker can be too high, and an overcooked one attaches to the command rather than to the mistake. Stated once, in one lesson, and not contradicted anywhere - but also not repeated anywhere, so it rests on a single source.
First perspective
I would, I would say like when you're doing the reinforcement marker, you have to be more careful. Whereas you don't have to be as careful with how high it is.
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Second perspective
Whether the collar comes first or last. One handler puts the e-collar at the end of the escalation order - hands into position, repeated, and only then the button - in a method otherwise built around the tool. Elsewhere in the same corpus the collar is the immediate backup to the word, every time, through the first week home.
First perspective
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Second perspective
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Questions and answers
What level should I have my dog on?
Nobody here will give you one, and the refusal is the answer. The number belongs to the situation, not to the dog: "The number is determined by the context. The number is determined by the context. It is determined by the context and then their reaction." Set it against what is in front of you, press once, and read what happens. Real working numbers from these files run from a ten to a seventy-five on healthy adult dogs, all of them correct for that dog on that day.
The number is determined by the context. The number is determined by the context. It is determined by the context and then their reaction.
Watch at 73:48 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
For them, it depends on context, so don't get stuck on a number. More what matters is their reaction.
Watch at 11:10 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
How do I know it is high enough - and how do I know it is too high?
You are looking for the smallest thing you can see: the ears coming up, a small head shake, or the dog turning back to you for the command. That is enough. Too high has its own tells - a yelp, a scramble, a dog rolling around - and one trainer puts a hard floor under it: "you don't need to torture your dog and torment them." Too low has a tell as well: the dog goes straight back to what it was doing within a few seconds.
any kind of response that's all i want so like most of the time i just want to see the ears so if i hit it there you go then like that's enough if you hit it your dog's like rolling around and everything it's what you like you don't like you don't need to torture your dog and torment them
Watch at 04:13 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
how does she respond to this if she isn't fazed by it it needs to be more if she goes right back to it five seconds later it isn't high enough needs to be more if she screams it was too high
Watch at 17:28 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Should I start low and work up, or start higher?
Both are done here and both have a reason. Starting where the dog registers it, then coming down, guards against the boiling-frog problem - creep up five at a time and the dog acclimates until you are permanently at the top of the dial. Starting at five or ten and climbing quickly to the first response guards against overshooting, and the climb speed is what stops it becoming the frog. The choice follows the dog: a resilient dog that has already blown off a recall is not a puppy who shuts down under pressure, and neither is a strong bully breed fighting the heel.
like all the way up and so it's better to just start out high if the dog
Watch at 33:18 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
to make the dog uncomfortable i turn it up until the dog responds i don't like start high i usually start at like five or ten and once i get something i get you know i don't like boost it up higher
Watch at 10:21 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
My dog is huge - doesn't he need a high level?
No. Size is rejected on camera as a predictor, twice. A sensitive Rottweiler is worked at fifteen while the trainer says most Rottweilers he has handled sit at thirty or thirty-five, and Kelton says outright that he has had Zeus-sized dogs who needed very little. What sets the level is what the dog wants at that moment, plus how thick its coat is and which unit is on its neck.
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
she's pretty sensitive which is is interesting because she's pretty strong usually the rottweilers aren't super sensitive to it like i find that a lot of rottweilers i've worked with hang on like a 30 35 but she's pretty sensitive
Watch at 03:52 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Will the level keep going up forever?
Not in these files - it moves both ways, and the clearest movement is downward. Ramsey's level was cut to a ten late in his program, with the mechanism stated: as his impulse control improved, the same stim now outweighed a smaller impulse. His owners were handed a ceiling of about twelve. Against that, a level the dog stops noticing has stopped being a level, and Zeus's went up when the novelty wore off outdoors. Both are normal.
since he's learned everything and he has better impulse control which means like he's feeling a little like the e-collar to him is now stronger than the impulse i've actually turned it down a little bit so now we're on like a 10.
Watch at 18:27 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Teaching outline
The handler can find a working level on an unfamiliar dog in under five minutes, name the observable that accepted it, and say aloud why that number will be wrong in the next room.
Deuce
01:50
02:20
A level found live from five upward, accepted on a criterion that is not compliance: he notices, and he keeps his bounce.
Dutchess
03:26
04:30
The ceiling version taught to a family: fifteen, twenty at most, the ears as the whole signal, and a live reduction because the room is calm.
Zeus
71:55
74:20
The refusal to give a number, the desk-tap analogy, the working figures that follow from it, and the too-high tell.
As run on film with Deuce and with Louie: fit and check the collar first. Set a low starting figure. Press once on a command the dog already knows and watch the head, not the dial. Nothing - go up a step and press again. Ears, shake or reorientation - stop, that is the level. Then change the room and do it again, and expect a different answer. On a dog that has already refused a known command, Kelton's version runs the other way: set it where it will register on this dog now, take the response, and come back down once it lands.
Raising the level before checking the fit.
Pressing repeatedly at a level the dog is not answering, which teaches him to ignore it.
Holding the button rather than pressing, reading and releasing.
Writing a number in the file without the collar model beside it.
Carrying yesterday's level into today's room.
Your dog answered a fifteen in the driveway and ignores a fifteen at the park with three dogs going past. What are the three things you check, and in what order?
Common mistakes
Turning the dial up when the dog does not react, without first asking whether the collar reached him at all.
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Reading no response as too low a level when the real answer is that the dog was too absorbed to feel it.
Probably she was so distracted she didn't feel it.
Watch at 00:59 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Treating a big reaction as proof that the level is high, and lowering it out of guilt when the dog is simply startled or dramatic.
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Holding the button down and sitting on a high setting rather than pressing, reading and stopping.
you're not hurting her i wouldn't recommend cranking it up to high and just hanging out there
Watch at 41:36 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Carrying one number for the dog and using it everywhere, instead of resetting it against the room.
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Comparing your dog's number with another dog's, or with a number from a video, without the unit and the context attached.
don't get hung up on the number on the screen because the number is relative to the dog and the context um it is not this absolute figure that like this is low and this is high
Watch at 24:25 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
What to notice
You are holding a number you were given weeks ago and it no longer seems to do anything.
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Your dog reacts hugely to a level you can barely feel yourself, so you assume you are hurting him.
That is a crazy reaction for a 12. So I think that that's a psychological thing for him now. If you felt a 12 on the seat collar, you would laugh your head off.
Watch at 34:55 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
A level that works indoors does nothing outside, or the number you need seems to double the moment there is another dog around.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
There's almost no distraction right now, so the e-collar's turned down a ton For Luna.
Watch at 06:11 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Your dog runs straight through a correction he clearly felt, and you conclude he is defiant or tough.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
You compared your dog's number with another owner's and one of you got worried.
don't get hung up on the number on the screen because the number is relative to the dog and the context um it is not this absolute figure that like this is low and this is high
Watch at 24:25 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Trainer notes
Order of operations when a level reads wrong: fit, then contact through the coat, then charge, then side, then the number. Only the last of those is the dial, and it is the one handlers reach for first.
Working figures actually recorded, each meaningless without its unit and its room: Deuce 12-13 quiet, 18 busy, 28 at peak, about 30 as ceiling; Dutchess 15 walking, 20 distracted, never past 20; Sage 10-15 on walks, 15-20 starter, 20-25 to back a marker, never above about 50; Luna 5 then 15 then 13 on day one, about 25 by the handover; Ramsey 15-20 then cut to 10 with a 12 ceiling; Roxy 20-60 by context; Zeus about 20 indoors, 32 on a walk, 65 pre-emptively, up to about 80 running at a dog; King about 75 through the coat, reacts at 34, rests on 60; Bullet climbed from 5, settled at about 8; Rocko 92 once, with the handler's own stated ceiling about 40. A Micro Educator is treated as about 30% weaker than the standard unit, so a level written down without the model is not a level.
The two starting techniques and who uses them are in `by_trainer`. Both stop at the first response; they differ only in the direction of approach, and both handlers name the same failure - a level that produces nothing. The context rules on film are: climb fast on a strong bully breed fighting the work, and set a low prospective ceiling on a young dog who shuts down, substituting physical pressure through the hands for collar pressure, with its own limit of 'not overwhelming' and a shake-off as the confirmation.
The asymmetric rule is worth teaching explicitly because it is counter-intuitive: the aversive marker can hardly be pitched too high, while the reinforcement marker can, and an overcooked reinforcement attaches the fear to the command rather than to the mistake. It rests on one lesson and one speaker.
A level that is not working on a motivated dog is not fixed by more level. The escalation on a fixated dog is named as producing suppression and flightiness, not compliance; the way in is play. And a reaction is not a level: startle, drama and pain are three different things and two of them are not the dial.
By trainer
Kelton
Start where it registers on this dog, then come down. The argument is the boiling frog: creep up from below and you desensitise the dog, so the level you are permanently stuck with is higher than it needed to be. He states it with two qualifiers built in - the dog in question is not feather-light, and the rule applies 'if the dog presents that way' - and he uses it on a resilient flight risk who had already refused a recall. With a soft dog he runs the opposite way in practice: on Sage he works low and answers a failed rep with clarity, waiting and space rather than more level, because going harder makes her freeze. To owners he teaches the three-way reaction test and the physical claim that any level on the collar is safe, with pressure sores from a tight collar left on for hours as the only named injury. On Bullet he walks a working level down to about eight because the reactions are out of proportion.
better to not start really low because if you do it really low and he doesn't get the point and then you have to like gradually go up higher they have a bunch of studies where you it's like boiling the frog
Watch at 32:53 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
level don't think about the number at all the only thing that matters is what the reaction that it creates in the dog because any level on the collar is safe and won't create injury
Watch at 16:35 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
That is a crazy reaction for a 12. So I think that that's a psychological thing for him now. If you felt a 12 on the seat collar, you would laugh your head off.
Watch at 34:55 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Connor
Start at five or ten and climb until the dog answers, then stop and do not boost it further. He says the phrase 'i don't like start high' to Deuce's owners as the house method, gives them the working figure of eighteen out of a hundred, and names sixty as torture territory. On Luna he states the same rule for the radius and then qualifies it himself: he has had to work that way with three dogs in his current set and usually does not. At Luna's handover he puts the collar last in the escalation order - hands into position first, repeated, then the button - and gives a starting figure of twenty-five with permission to go up if she slips into avoidance. He also supplies the scaling rule: the level for a refused sit is not the level for a bite.
to make the dog uncomfortable i turn it up until the dog responds i don't like start high i usually start at like five or ten and once i get something i get you know i don't like boost it up higher so deuce is sitting on about an 18 out of 100 so i'm not out here on like 60 just like plus it's not very productive it kind of starts to get in like torture territory
Watch at 10:21 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
the radius you start low and default and you keep like if they don't respond you keep hitting turn it up until they're like fine
Watch at 18:05 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
um funny enough all three of the dogs in this that i've had to do it with i usually don't
Watch at 18:16 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
if it's a really aggressive dog, like I'm talking like really aggressive, like biting people, um the e-collar setting that I'm going to use if the dog doesn't sit is going to be a different level than like if the dog went and like bit somebody's leg at like full power, right?
Watch at 18:57 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Stormie's in-program handler (not named in any of these transcripts)
Says the word, then climbs the level quickly rather than starting high, on the reasoning that the dog reads the trend, gives in early, and therefore is not actually hurt - and that it is faster. He describes it as a technique he is currently developing because of the bully breeds coming through the program, and repeats the short version the next day. This is the position that sits furthest from the rest of the record, and it is unattributed.
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
and obviously like training with bully breeds lately so of course I'm developing techniques that are making training bully breeds faster
Watch at 11:07 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
So, what I did there, it's a thing that I do with the like the bully breeds. You just crank it up cuz they're just really strong cuz she was trying to fight me on heel.
Watch at 02:27 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Stormie's lead trainer and handover teacher (not named; refers to Christian in the third person, so not Christian)
Sets the ceiling before the session rather than in response to the dog: she is young, pressure shuts her down quickly, so the working level stays low and physical pressure through the hands substitutes for collar pressure, capped at 'not overwhelming', with a shake-off as the confirmation it was right. He hands exactly that to the family four hours later, adds the start-at-twenty-and-turning-it-up-is-the-last-resort version, warns them not to crank it high and sit there, and supplies the asymmetric rule about the two markers.
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
you're not hurting her i wouldn't recommend cranking it up to high and just hanging out there
Watch at 41:36 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
I would, I would say like when you're doing the reinforcement marker, you have to be more careful. Whereas you don't have to be as careful with how high it is.
Watch at 20:36 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Dutchess's program handler (not named; names Connor in the third person, so not Connor)
Teaches the stopping rule rather than the starting rule, and gives the family a number they can hold him to: never past twenty, fifteen at rest, less indoors. The criterion is the smallest visible response - usually the ears, sometimes a shake - and he names anything bigger as torturing the dog. He uses her breed against breed rules, and corrects the inference that no response means too low.
what setting i have her i never go past the 20 20 is like if she's really distracted active 15 though is where she usually rests we're just walking in the park
Watch at 03:26 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
any kind of response that's all i want so like most of the time i just want to see the ears so if i hit it there you go then like that's enough if you hit it your dog's like rolling around and everything it's what you like you don't like you don't need to torture your dog and torment them
Watch at 04:13 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Probably she was so distracted she didn't feel it.
Watch at 00:59 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Zeus's and Roxy's in-program trainer (not named; refers to Connor in the third person)
Refuses to give a number at all, three times in a row, and then makes the refusal teachable with an analogy about how the same tap means everything or nothing depending on what you were attending to. The positive rule that replaces the number is a two-part read: the context first, then the dog's reaction, with reorientation toward the handler as the tell that it landed usefully. Handles the pre-emptive raise as a planning move rather than an escalation - thirty-two to sixty-five before walking a big dog toward another dog.
The number is determined by the context. The number is determined by the context. It is determined by the context and then their reaction.
Watch at 73:48 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
So if they go, oh, if Zeus jumps and freaks out, like really freaks out, then it was too high. So just turn it down. It's too high for that context.
Watch at 74:09 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
If they do feel it and it's effective, they either reorient towards you and look for you to give them command if they've not listened to something.
Watch at 11:22 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
normally like in this kind of case no you're not getting the car if i if i know that he might do it i normally turn the collar up yeah what's it on now 32 32. put it on like a 65
Watch at 35:45 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Kodak's and Rocko's handler (not named in any of these transcripts)
Warns the audience directly not to read the numbers as a scale, twice, and puts his own working ceiling on the record at about forty. Owns a level he got wrong on camera. Names the desensitisation risk from the tough-dog side - too low on an excited, hard dog is not the safe choice - and argues the limit of the whole dial with the ten-thousand-dollar experiment: a motivated enough animal walks through anything, so the answer to a fixated dog is play, not more level.
don't get hung up on the number on the screen because the number is relative to the dog and the context um it is not this absolute figure that like this is low and this is high
Watch at 24:25 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
So, you know, it's always a judgment call where I'm trying to make sure that I use the right level of negative reinforcement and the right level of positive reinforcement to get the right result, and sometimes you make the wrong call, you make the wrong judgment you have it too high or you have it too low and it's not effective
Watch at 11:30 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
that was on that was a 92. and like i that is i you know i basically i like never use that like yeah like like these days i i i almost never go above a like like a 40
Watch at 47:58 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Equipment context
Remote e-collar (unspecified standard unit)
0-100 scale on most units quoted. Working levels are found by pressing on a known command and reading the dog, then reset against each new environment. On Zeus's unit the dial is described as black and running 0 to 99, and 'high' is named as a setting never to use.
normally like in this kind of case no you're not getting the car if i if i know that he might do it i normally turn the collar up yeah what's it on now 32 32. put it on like a 65
Watch at 35:45 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
and then it says high. Which you will never, ever, ever use. Neither of them use that.
Watch at 11:00 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Micro Educator / mini educator (small-dog unit)
Treated as roughly 30% weaker than the standard unit, so an instructed 15 is scaled to 30 to produce the intended sensation. A ceiling of about 12 on a mini educator is handed to one owner. Every level recorded anywhere in this corpus is uninterpretable without the model attached.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
The handler's own hands, as a substitute for the dial
On a young dog under a pressure ceiling, collar pressure is traded for physical guidance into position, capped at 'not overwhelming', with a shake-off read as the confirmation. Also used as the first step of an escalation order at one handover, with the e-collar behind it.
using less e-collar with her and just more physical pressure
Watch at 0:57 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Settings
Deuce
A park, used because it supplies the distraction the level has to be set against
00:28
Luna
A nearly empty street at night, named as the reason the level comes down a long way
06:11
Dutchess
The client's own living room at the handover, where the level is re-read against a calm room
10:44
King
Downtown, chosen deliberately for traffic and noise on a dog who startles
06:24
Owner accounts
don't worry about doing that. Like because who decides how high the e-collar is, you every time. Yep. The dog. That makes me happy that you said the dog.
Watch at 75:59 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Candidate clips
The number is determined by the context. The number is determined by the context. It is determined by the context and then their reaction.
Watch at 73:48 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
he's not super light, like he's not feather light on the e-collar unfortunately and it's
Watch at 32:46 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Source moments
Source reference held under the current eligibility review.
Case story beats
Stormie
Seventy-two hours in one puppy's file: crank it fast on Monday, crank it fast on Tuesday, and on Wednesday a different trainer sets a low ceiling before the session starts and hands that version - only that version - to her family.
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
So with her, you start out with lower pressure, and then you can build into it.
Watch at 24:43 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Kodak
One walk, two dogs, a ten and a ninety-two - and the ninety-two produced a squeal and did not stop the dog at all, which is the argument against the dial made by the dial.
he fixates hard and he's very persistent i mean that's like in terms of like the e-collar level that's the highest he's ever felt and all he i mean he let out a little squeal but like like that little like but like he didn't stop him no he's still like searching it like it didn't shut him off at all
Watch at 47:37 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Deuce
A ninety-six-pound adolescent meets the tool for the first time, and the criterion the trainer uses to accept the level is not that the dog obeyed - it is that he is still bouncing.
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Questions for intake
Which e-collar do you already own, by make and model? (Every level in our records is meaningless without the unit - one house model runs about 30% weaker than another.)
Has your dog ever worn a remote collar before, and at what setting? Did anyone tell you a number to use?
How thick is the coat over the neck, and does the dog have a double coat? (It decides whether a high number means a tough dog or a thick one.)
What does your dog do when it is startled - jump, yelp, freeze, or carry on? (It tells us in advance how to read the first press.)
What is the single thing your dog wants most in the world, and would it cross a road for it? (It sets the level that will actually be needed in the situation you are worried about.)
Is your dog under a year old, and does it shut down when you push it? (A prospective ceiling is set before the first session, not in response to it.)
Still to establish
Which starting technique is house policy, or is the answer that both are taught with the dog as the selector? The owner's decision of 18 September 2026 records it as context-dependent, but the two rationales have never been laid side by side for staff in one place.
Who is Stormie's in-program handler on 1 and 2 September? He is unnamed in both transcripts and his is the position furthest from the rest of the record, so the attribution matters more here than anywhere else in the concept.
The 'techniques I'm developing for bully breeds' line implies an in-house method in progress. Is there anything written down about it, and has anyone other than that handler adopted it?
The asymmetric-marker rule rests on one speaker in one lesson. Is it general house teaching, or that handler's own formulation?
Nobody on film reconciles 'the e-collar is the last thing you go for' with 'back up every word with the button through the first week.' Are these two stages of the same program or two positions?
Every level in these files is uninterpretable without the collar model. Should the bible record model alongside level from now on?
Source limitations
Speaker identity is unrecoverable in most of these sessions. Only Kelton and Connor are named in the transcripts used here; every other 'who' is recorded as unnamed with the Tier 1 note's clues attached, and Kelton's attribution on X8whC7R12t8 comes from bible/concepts.json and the owner's review, not from the audio.
The Micro Educator exchange (83w6Et4G-WE 09:32) rests on low-confidence cues. It is recorded because the sequence is internally consistent and because its consequence - every quoted level being model-relative - is large.
Numbers are transcribed by Whisper and occasionally garbled: '12th' for '12' at 4L4vqzKd0sM 18:22, 'callers' for 'collar's' at GFTcyzmfunU 07:13, 'seat collar' at D21wCTr8D-0 34:55. The judgements around them are unambiguous; the digits should not be quoted to a page without a listen.
Dates in `counts` are YouTube publication dates where the Tier 1 note records one. They are not shoot dates, and date order is not session order in this corpus.
Twelve Tier 1 sightings for this concept were set aside during dossier assembly as duplicates or near-duplicates of sightings already listed; the underlying sessions are all represented here.
Twenty-one of the forty-five cited sessions carry a YouTube publication date in their Tier 1 note; the rest are undated, so the range in counts is a floor on the spread, not the whole of it.
Connected library collections
These links follow eligible video assignments in the reviewed library. A source can feature more than one animal; the older research-folder name is not used to merge identities.
Related concepts
- Why isn't my e-collar working?
- Is one hard correction kinder than lots of small ones?
- What if my dog doesn't seem to care about corrections?
- Does an e-collar hurt?
- Will my dog only listen when the e-collar is on?
- What equipment do I actually need?
- What if correcting my dog doesn't work?
- My dog shuts down during training - what do I do?
- Can a word go bad for my dog?