The answer
No, and the trainers make the argument out loud instead of assuming it. They say a dog who is never corrected does not get a kinder life. He gets a smaller one. They describe the same pattern across very different dogs. He pulls, so the walks stop. He can't be trusted with visitors, so he is put away when people come. The owner stops going to the park, and at family gatherings the dog goes in another room. Gates go up, doors can't be open at the same time, and somebody spends the day running the house 'like a cell block'. One trainer calls the dog-reactive version 'a supermax prisoner', and says it is what owners are often sold as the solution. For the worst cases the end point is named plainly: the dog gets locked up and 'the dogs life gets smaller and smaller', or he does something really bad and is euthanized. For an adopted dog the stake can be the home itself: Hattie's trainer imagines telling her that she likes this nice house, 'well you can't ever do that again otherwise you gotta leave' (watch 24:47). Piglet, who tried to bite a cat and lives with three, is told the same plainly: if she does it at home, 'euthanasia is a risk suddenly. Rehoming is a risk' (watch 12:19). And the family, one trainer says, usually ends up resenting the dog anyway.
The trainers concede the cost first. On camera: 'they are uncomfortable a few times… you shock them'. Then they price it, as a question the dog would answer. 'One second up to like 45 seconds is very very uncomfortable but I get to go all over the place', against a life shrunk to the back yard and walks timed for when no other dogs are out. 'Cumulatively 20 minutes of sadness over the dog's life', against being given away or crated all day. You 'want him to look scared and sad every once in a while but they get to like go do lots of cool stuff'. At Beo's first owner lesson Kelton lists the cons as 'a momentary negative affect' and the pros as a walk the owner enjoys, so the dog goes out more, to more places, and eventually off leash (watch 25:22). Each trainer says which option he would pick, and that he thinks the dog would pick the same.
The frame behind it is stated as a welfare argument, not a licence. Several trainers say welfare is judged by the total outcome of a whole life, not a ten-second snapshot. One calls judging training by a moment of displeasure 'like picking out a single time that a parent tells a kid no'. Another widens the count to 'the biker', 'the jogger', the owner and the dog. The positive version is what owners hear most: a trained dog's life 'gets bigger', with walks, parks, stores, airplanes, a full life with his people 'but he has to listen'. There is also a practical, medical version: a dog who can't be handled can't be properly cared for at the vet, so learning to cope with pressure is framed as resilience.
The limits are stated too. Punish only in ways that feel ethical to you and cannot injure the dog. The aim is 'happy' Bubba Gum, not a suppressed one. And the bargain is not offered to every dog. With a nervous dog, one handler judged that grinding a heel would produce a frustrated nip, 'how dogs get put down all the time', so he did not push.
Inferred, not said: the trade is always priced by the trainer on the dog's behalf ('if it were me'). Nobody states the rule for which dog gets the bargain and which gets the wait.
Angier K9 is a family-owned, play-based Board & Train serving Angier, Raleigh and the Triangle, with three full owner lessons.
What to do
Write down what your dog is no longer allowed to do: the walk you stopped taking, the park you avoid, the room he goes to when visitors come, the gate rota. That list is the real cost of leaving him untrained. Then decide, with your trainer, whether you would trade it for a handful of uncomfortable moments. Each one should be a consequence he can see coming and avoid, that feels ethical to you, and that cannot injure him. If you wouldn't, that's a legitimate answer. What the trainers say is not on offer is a version where nothing is ever uncomfortable and nothing shrinks. And if your dog is nervous rather than pushy, ask whether the bargain is right for him yet.
What the trainers say
in a way they understand but over time you start to resent them because they're annoying you constantly they destroy things in the house so you put them in the crate they pull really hard on walks so you stop taking my walks and their life gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and
life is full and fun and big but they feel some shocks here and there when they do something stupid your dog would choose option B every single time I would choose option B might punish me but make my life bigger
Now people can punish their dogs any old way. Whatever feels ethical to you and whatever uh is not going to injure him. Those are the two boundaries that I have, right?
like that because if you think about his life it can be big or it can be really small and reacting that way to dogs shrinks his life down to like really small go outside in the backyard by yourself walk around the house
uncomfortable for you know you know one second up to like 45 seconds is very very uncomfortable but I get to go all over the place I can go anywhere versus don't punish me severely but my life is really small if it were me I'm picking the first option every time
the time when people have multiple dogs is what you end up doing is running something akin to kind of like a not in spirit but in in like mechanically speaking it's kind of like a prison not that your dogs feel like they're in prison or anything like that it more makes you feel like you're managing a prison right because what you have to do is like the gates are up this dog's put away this dog's not out yet
it's not as if you're making their life miserable now. It actually makes their life bigger. It opens their life up. It makes their life as big as it can be. Where you get to trust them and give them more freedom,
that's what management does when you have to use management because your dog isn't trained you make their life uber small you can't trust them to do anything and so you're constantly restraining them managing them putting them in a tiny box
instead but it makes your dog's life a lot better too so they are uncomfortable a few times right because yeah I mean you shock them
teach them things and by doing so you uh you open up their life look how much more freedom bullet has in comparison to what he had when we first came here when he first came here i could not take my eyes off him for one second
But you can either have that momentary negative affect, or you can have the very long-term welfare problem of she doesn't go anywhere.
but if i had to choose cumulatively 20 minutes of sadness over the dog's life for a few months versus they get really annoying you guys end up having a bad relationship with her and you end up giving her away or sticking her in her crate all day
I think that's the wrong approach. I think that total outcome is a better measure of welfare,
all right you want him to look scared and sad every once in a while but they get to like go do lots of cool stuff or alternatively they never look sad and sad and scared for a second but they don't get to do anything fun
it's very humane as well because his welfare is the total of more than just was there any discomfort or was there any displeasure, right?
We feel bad about things. Yeah. Um, but I, that's why it's always helpful. Like I try to keep the total picture in mind. What's the total welfare question. Um, and so that total welfare question includes you. It includes the biker. It includes the jogger. Um, it includes Rocky.
is not okay because like a lot of times trainers will sell this as a solution as an example they might tell you okay here's what you got to do you need to take Milo and basically make him hide him away and treat him like a like a like a supermax prisoner
again one day they just accept it and they lock that dog up and the dog gets worse and worse and the dogs life gets smaller and smaller
a life with major going out in public on walks to the park on airplanes on public transportation
like but he has to listen to me right so he can be very fulfilled have a great time have a good life do lots of fun things with his people but he has to listen that's all
a momentary negative affect momentary negative affect emotionally for the dog where the dog clearly is unhappy right they don't like it which is the whole idea but but that's like momentary but then like what's on the pro side what's in the positive side well it's way more fun for you to take your dog on a walk
it more often and to more fun places and different places and take him with you more because you can because he's not doing this so then it's better for him too because then like he gets to go out more and do more fun stuff
But when he's really, really loud and howling and barking and his hackles are up and he's acting crazy whenever he sees another dog or even a lot of times when he sees people i mean they're not going to take him anywhere
if you could have a rational conversation with her like like you could like with like a person like me or something like that and you like told me like hey like look you like this like nice house and all this nice stuff and like isn't it so much better than where you lived before and you know yeah and then I'd be like well you can't ever do that again otherwise you gotta leave right
so like for her it's like there's a lot at stake and it's like if she could make the choice she'd make that choice every time
what's that going to open up for him walks going in public going on trips take this dog to the beach to the mountains to the park instead of struggling to walk around your own apartment complex that's the end result
it denies death sentences all day death sentences denied right it prevents injuries to dogs it prevents injuries to people and it prevents euthanasia it raises the dog's quality of life because he gets to go to the park now whereas before he can't go anywhere right
Well, you're going to do something about that because the total outcome outweighs the momentary negative affect.
to think that was that I'm still like thinking total welfare would I rather
How it looks, dog by dog
King
King's lessons make the argument at full length, to a family with an ordinary pet dog and no bite history. Kelton sets it up as two options the dog would choose between. Option A: never correct, grow to resent him, crate him, stop the walks, until 'they never get to be out while people are around'. Option B: 'some shocks here and there when they do something stupid' inside a life that is 'full and fun and big'. The limits come in the same lesson: whatever feels ethical to you, and nothing that could injure him. On a later walk he points at the alternative in the wild: people who see another dog and steer away because theirs can't behave.
On film
at total outcome total welfare put the whole picture what if your dog could talk and you could have this conversation with your dog what would
and they get to do less and less and less and less things. They never get to be out while people are around. They have to be in the crate.
so many people do that they see another dog they avoid them with their dog because their dog can't behave good boy let's go up up here that is sad it's a bummer
Zeus
Zeus is a big, insecure, dog-reactive dog, and his file has both halves. The stake: his life can be big or really small, and reactivity shrinks it to the back yard and walks timed for when no other dogs are out. The price: up to about forty-five seconds of very uncomfortable, and the trainer says which he would pick. The household half is aimed at the family. With several dogs you are not living with them, you are 'managing a prison'. The dogs don't feel imprisoned, but you do. In the field he says it to the dog directly: 'you're not going to be able to go anywhere if you do that'.
On film
and you gotta like manage like okay kind of like on like a cell block where you have to like manage when the door is open and you can't have these doors open and these doors open at the same time
you can't do that cannot do that you're not allowed you're not going to be able to go anywhere if you do that buddy That's gonna be the problem.
Kodak
Kodak's trainer gives the positive statement and the reason for pressure together. Pressure and boundaries, with lots of positive reinforcement and freedom, buy trust, and trust buys freedom. Management used because the dog isn't trained 'make[s] their life uber small'. It is the trainer's rationale, stated as the reason for using pressure at all.
On film
tiny box but if you were willing to sometimes penalize or sometimes use pressure to teach boundaries and teach things that they should be doing and teach them to listen along with obviously lots of positive reinforcement and lots of freedom then you can trust them
Bullet
Then the qualification, 'in a clarifying way in a teaching way', and a before-and-after in the same park: 'I could not take my eyes off him for one second' when he arrived.
On film
but in a clarifying way in a teaching way right you penalize them
Akira
Akira was amped, vocal and reactive to other dogs, and her trainer builds a whole session on the welfare frame. He cites a respected figure in the field for the view that welfare is judged across a dog's whole life and community. 'Momentary negative affect' is set against 'the very long-term welfare problem of she doesn't go anywhere'. To her owners he puts it as cumulative minutes: twenty minutes of sadness over her life, against a bad relationship, rehoming or a crate all day, 'which happens to a lot of german shepherds'. He adds that endless unclear frustration is the inhumane option.
On film
because there's nothing worse than endless frustration.
Astro
Astro came to the program after other trainers, by the trainer's report, had recommended euthanasia. His go-home lesson states the welfare frame directly: total outcome, not a snapshot of negative affect. At an update walk the trainer sets one yelp against a dog who never learns an obligated recall. The owner's reaction to the change is the image the concept runs on: a muzzle off.
On film
then they recalled versus they never learned the recall sufficiently such that it was obligated
It's so beautiful seeing a muzzle off of him.
Bernie
Bernie's trainer argues the trade to the family before the dog even comes out. A dog who looks 'scared and sad every once in a while' gets to do lots of cool stuff. One who never looks sad 'for a second' doesn't get to do anything fun, 'because they're rambunctious and obnoxious'. The count is 'total welfare: the dog, the family, the community'. On the trail he adds the resilience half: you should prepare dogs for life as you prepare children, and it can be done kindly.
On film
like the trade-off for like in terms of what makes their life better overall um and what makes your
oh boy crazy you're crazy big boy but you should prepare them for life just like you should prepare your kids for life if you don't right it's irresponsible and it can be done in a kind way
Egg
He gets the argument in its sharpest form, delivered as a rant against judging training by a moment. Welfare is the total, and judging by one moment of displeasure is 'like picking out a single time that a parent tells a kid no'. The stated outcome is that he doesn't get put down, and his life 'suddenly gets really full'. There is also a medical reason: without handling tolerance he can't get proper vet care.
On film
That's like picking out a single time that a parent tells a kid no and they feel sad and they cry and say they're abusive parents.
circumstance he doesn't get put down he doesn't get euthanized he gets to go enjoy life go to parks his life suddenly gets really full
egg needs to be able to go to the vet and do other stuff you know otherwise he's not going to get proper medical care he's going to bite people
Rocky
Rocky's files give the resilience case and the widest welfare count. On day one, working a down through mild pressure, the trainer argues that an all-positive dog never learns to move through the negative reinforcement life will bring, including being handled at the vet. At a follow-up after go-home, facing an owner whose dog chases joggers and bikes, he names the total welfare question: the owner, the biker, the jogger and Rocky. He would rather a correction be slightly too high than uselessly low.
On film
This is actually good in a dog's development, because if everything's going only through positive reinforcement, they don't learn how to move through the inevitable negative reinforcement part, right?
He's going to have to have people manipulate his body. So it's important that he learns how to manage that kind of thing without freaking out.
Milo
Milo's owner came in after he reacted to a small dog. The trainer names what she might otherwise be sold: hide him away and treat him 'like a supermax prisoner'. In the recap he describes the gate-and-alleyway routine that owners who won't stop their dog end up running. The alternative is to make it clear, once, that he cannot do that.
On film
the time is people aren't willing to to stop their dog to stop them from doing it and make it really clear to them that they cannot do that and because they're not willing to do that do that their dog lives like they're in a supermax prison
Reaper
Reaper Wolf is a very large dog in a serious behaviour-modification program. His second owner inherited the problem 'already in full swing', and the trainer says it is nobody's fault: not the dog's, not the neighbour's, not the owner's. Without help, dogs like him get locked up and get worse, or do something really bad and are euthanized. The trainer is candid that one goal is not his preference: 'I don't even like punishing wildlife reactivity, but this isn't about me.' It is about what the owners need and making the dog's life as big as possible. Two September 2026 sessions add the bigger-life side of the bargain. On a choice-point walk the trainer lists what clarity buys Reaper - walks, going in public, trips, the beach, the mountains, the park, instead of struggling to walk round his own apartment complex - in exchange for avoiding a very few outlawed acts. On a public trail he gives the before and after: before, Reaper could go nowhere and neighbours complained because they were frightened of him; now he goes to the park. He calls it death sentences denied.
On film
sure ain't the dog's fault right and it's not the neighbor's fault and in
just in the toilet or another one is that dogs like this end up doing something really bad right and getting put down they get euthanized and that's
to be very frank with you, I don't even like punishing wildlife reactivity, but this isn't about me. This isn't my dog. This is about his owners, what they're capable of doing with him, what they need him to be like, and what's going to improve his quality of life and make his life as big as possible.
what's that going to open up for him walks going in public going on trips take this dog to the beach to the mountains to the park instead of struggling to walk around your own apartment complex that's the end result
as long as you don't try to mull people you got lots of freedom and you have a great freaking time
it denies death sentences all day death sentences denied right it prevents injuries to dogs it prevents injuries to people and it prevents euthanasia it raises the dog's quality of life because he gets to go to the park now whereas before he can't go anywhere right
quality of life because he gets to go to the park now whereas before he can't go anywhere right he was causing complaints from neighbors just walking him because they're terrified of him
Rocky (the Rottweiler)
Rocky the Rottweiler's owner describes the shrinking herself, with no trainer's framing needed. She stopped going to the park because of his behaviour, and he is put away when relatives visit. The trainer's comment is that putting him away teaches nothing.
On film
i kind of stopped going to the park okay because of that i used to go to park he's fine and you
Major
Major's owner wanted an emotional-support dog she could take anywhere. The trainer puts the goal as the bargain: public walks, parks, airplanes, public transport. The alternative, if he goes on uncorrected, is a dog she 'can't even walk'. He calls that worse than one or two strong corrections in public.
On film
with time it'll just get worse where you can't even walk him out you can't take him to the stores you can't take him on the airplane you can't take him nowhere and that life is worse than one or two
Dolly
Dolly is a husky, and her loose-leash lesson makes the argument from the everyday end. A dog who pulls 'like a sled dog' gets taken to the park 'not very often'. One who walks nicely gets taken 'a lot more', because the walk is easy and fun. The trainer then puts the choice from the dog's side.
On film
is allowed and then it makes it where now if your husky isn't you know trying to pull you like you're a sled right then that makes her life way better because how often are you going to take her to the
Teddy
Teddy is off leash on a hike on day eight, swimming and playing tug, and the trainer states the bargain as he hands it over. A fulfilled life with his people, 'but he has to listen'. A failed recall is where 'the dog's gonna get hurt'.
On film
and especially with the recall recall super important for him to listen to the recall because if he doesn't if he fails on a recall then the dog's gonna get hurt
Bo
Bo's follow-up describes the small life as something that happens to the relationship. The trainer has seen it 'too many times': the family loves the dog, comes to resent him because he makes life hard, and he ends up in the crate. Not from cruelty, but because they can't manage him. The trainer adds that he has worn the tool himself.
On film
because then his world doesn't end up being cuz I've seen it happen too many times is where like somebody will get a dog and they love the dog and then over time they end up resenting them. They resent them because they make their life hard and then the dog ends up crated like a lot. They're in the crate all the time. Um because they can't manage the dog because they don't listen.
He might not like it in the short term like I don't like getting shocked, right? Because I' I've used this on myself lots of times, right?
Finn
Finn is a fear case and a flight risk, and his file states the concept as a destination. The trainer wants adventures for him, places he can go with the family, a dog who comes back and isn't 'constantly just on edge and freaked out' and a life the family enjoys too.
On film
i want for him to have adventures like this where he can go with you off these places do things enjoy his life and where you guys get to enjoy life as well with a dog that is under control who will come back who will sit and down and heal and do all that kind of stuff and who isn't like constantly just on edge and freaked out and scared and running from everything
Lola
Lola is the dog who complicates the concept. Her stake is the same (locking her up 'messes up her quality of life'), and her owners describe planning walks around when nobody is out. But her handler draws the opposite conclusion from King's and Zeus's. Grinding a frustrated, nervous dog through heel risks a nip at a child, and that, he says, is 'how dogs get put down all the time'. So the pressure is withheld for now.
On film
It's uh it messes up her quality of life and as well the quality of the training.
you know you he'll grind and then all of a sudden nips at like a four-year-old it's not a great look for you or your dog that's how dogs get put down all the time
Louie
Louie is the inversion. A dog who has bitten usually has his options narrowed to nothing. His widen instead, to a farm with a job, and the goal set for him in an earlier home session is quality of life in as many words. Obedience is not mentioned.
On film
He's very smart He's also very He's very sensitive to all kinds of things. I want to keep getting to know him better Show him love help him to enjoy his life more
Beo
Beo is a hound whose obedience his trainer calls excellent; what keeps his life small is the whining, howling and barking at dogs and people on walks. On an evening walk the trainer says that behaviour is the main thing preventing him from going anywhere with his owner - travel, the beach, the mountains - because when he is loud, hackles up and 'acting crazy', 'they're not going to take him anywhere'.
On film
we're just we're just gonna extinguish that behavior because it's the main thing preventing him otherwise than that he's a great dog with excellent obedience now and he should be able to go anywhere with his owner he should be able to go all over the place and have great time
But when he's really, really loud and howling and barking and his hackles are up and he's acting crazy whenever he sees another dog or even a lot of times when he sees people i mean they're not going to take him anywhere
a momentary negative affect momentary negative affect emotionally for the dog where the dog clearly is unhappy right they don't like it which is the whole idea but but that's like momentary but then like what's on the pro side what's in the positive side well it's way more fun for you to take your dog on a walk
it more often and to more fun places and different places and take him with you more because you can because he's not doing this so then it's better for him too because then like he gets to go out more and do more fun stuff
Hattie
Hattie is an adopted dog, filmed at a follow-up in her adopters' home after the family's cat was hurt. Her file gives the small life its sharpest edge: what is at stake is the home itself. The trainer imagines explaining the deal to her as you would to a person - you like this nice house, isn't it better than where you lived before, you can't ever do that again or you have to leave - and says that if she could make the choice she would take the bargain every time. Because she cannot be told, she has to learn it, so he weighs a bad minute for the dog against the stakes for everyone involved: the dog, the family who love her, and the cat.
On film
the risks are like big like for everybody involved right like for her it's like that's a deal breaker
if you could have a rational conversation with her like like you could like with like a person like me or something like that and you like told me like hey like look you like this like nice house and all this nice stuff and like isn't it so much better than where you lived before and you know yeah and then I'd be like well you can't ever do that again otherwise you gotta leave right
but you can't tell her right she has to learn right you can't tell her
so like for her it's like there's a lot at stake and it's like if she could make the choice she'd make that choice every time
when i look at total outcome and i look at okay like what is the like what are like the two things i'm weighing out like either i make the dog feel really bad temporarily or all this really bad stuff happens for everybody involved including the dog
Max (Goldendoodle)
Answering the claim that e-collars are inhumane, the trainer asks Max's owner a plain question: if he kept slamming her on the concrete, would she walk him less? Walks with her are one of the best parts of his day, so the small life is worse for him, and for her; a predictable, sometimes uncomfortable consequence he knows how to avoid is the better side of the balance.
On film
full to the dog but also like it makes their life better like as an example if he kept slamming you
on the concrete right would that perhaps affect how often you took him on a walk did it maybe you
walked him less right um is that good or bad for him well that makes his life worse obviously like
Piglet
Piglet tried to bite a cat, and she lives with three. The trainer sets a deliberately larger penalty for that one thing and says why: if she keeps doing it the family can't keep her, so it would make her life really small; he wants her life big, integrated with the other dogs and the kids. Later he names the stakes outright - euthanasia and rehoming become risks - and the payoff: off leash, a dog who listens goes so many more places instead of being left at home or in a crate.
On film
can't live with that that's true it will make her life really small right and so
I don't want that right I want her life to be big and happy and I want her to be
Well, because she has three cats at home.
home. If she does that, euthanasia is a risk suddenly. Rehoming is a risk. All kinds of
But still not a good outcome, which is the dog's life gets
Roman
Explaining why the e-collar aims at avoidance, the trainer puts the choice from Roman's side: a life where you don't get to do much and people don't feel safe taking you out, or one where you get to go everywhere. When Roman arrived he was already growling at passing dogs, so he could only be kept close with no freedom.
On film
would you rather not get to do anything because you don't listen so you live a life where you
don't get to do much or and like where people don't feel safe taking you out because you aren't
under any kind of control at all or you get to go everywhere and do anything you want well and that
Samson
At the end of a session the trainer names what Samson has learned - to bully people into getting what he wants - and the stake: left alone, it will not work for him long term and 'will get him put down', so he has to learn it is not an option.
On film
that Samson has learned along the way in his life is that he can bully people into getting
going to work that is not going to work for him long term that will get him put down that will
Thor
Thor's file has the argument twice. At home the trainer weighs, for the whole household, conflict and frustration several times a week for years against two or three unfun moments for Thor, and picks the second. In a later lesson he spells out the shrinking life when a punishment's message is never clear: resentment, gates, crates, fewer walks. At handover the owner says it feels bad in the moment, but it would mess his life up.
On film
right what's better discord like that like conflict um for you know however many times a
anything and like their life gets smaller and smaller suddenly they're
gated suddenly they're created suddenly like they don't get to go on walks very
Yeah, cause it'll mess his life up.
Why it works
The stated mechanism has two parts. The first is contingency. A consequence the dog can see coming and avoid produces control, not fear, so a handful of them does not make him afraid of the handler (watch 23:44, 24:13; watch 30:00). The fuller argument is in what-makes-a-correction-fair. The second is what the correction buys. Freedom is the currency: a dog who can be told once that a choice was bad can be let off leash, let out with visitors and taken to the park (watch 18:59; watch 09:03). Run backwards, the same logic produces the small life. The family doesn't become cruel, it becomes tired: it manages, crates and avoids, and resentment follows the management (watch 50:17; watch 47:02; watch 24:25). The trainers frame the whole calculation as welfare judged over a life and a community, not a moment (watch 56:27; watch 79:20; watch 20:45; watch 26:18). One trainer attributes that frame to a respected figure in the field (watch 62:38). A third strand is resilience: a dog who meets mild pressure young copes later, including with vet handling (watch 17:14; watch 43:35). Inferred, not stated: the trade is priced by the trainer on the dog's behalf ('if it were me', 'if I were the dog'), as a thought experiment. The evidence that trained dogs' lives got bigger is before-and-after description (Bullet, Astro's muzzle, Reaper's parks), not measurement. Nobody states the criterion for when a dog gets the bargain and when he gets the wait.
Where the trainers differ
Is the bargain offered to every dog?
One view
Offer it. The trade is judged on total outcome, the dog would take it, and withholding pressure is what produces the small life.
On film
life is full and fun and big but they feel some shocks here and there when they do something stupid your dog would choose option B every single time I would choose option B might punish me but make my life bigger
uncomfortable for you know you know one second up to like 45 seconds is very very uncomfortable but I get to go all over the place I can go anywhere versus don't punish me severely but my life is really small if it were me I'm picking the first option every time
so like for her it's like there's a lot at stake and it's like if she could make the choice she'd make that choice every time
Another view
Not to this dog, not yet. Pressure on a frustrated, nervous dog is what produces the bite, and the bite ends the life the bargain was meant to buy.
On film
you know you he'll grind and then all of a sudden nips at like a four-year-old it's not a great look for you or your dog that's how dogs get put down all the time
How to read it
These may not really disagree, since a handler could hold both. But the criterion is never stated. Zeus is reactive and gets the severe correction with the bargain stated over it. Lola is reactive and gets heel withheld, with the same argument as the reason.
Is all management the small life?
One view
Management is the prison: gates, rotations, hiding the dog away, putting him in another room. It teaches nothing and shrinks his life.
On film
the time is people aren't willing to to stop their dog to stop them from doing it and make it really clear to them that they cannot do that and because they're not willing to do that do that their dog lives like they're in a supermax prison
that's what management does when you have to use management because your dog isn't trained you make their life uber small you can't trust them to do anything and so you're constantly restraining them managing them putting them in a tiny box
Another view
Some management is fine. The question is how invasive it is. Closing a bedroom door is acceptable, while rotating dogs like a prison guard is not.
On film
of times, um, there are problems within like the house, like living stuff that don't have
okay, what I just described is a management-style solution,
How to read it
Murphy's quote opens Kelton's point that some household problems have poor training solutions but easy management ones (the note's summary of 13:38 onward). The line between acceptable and prison-like management is drawn case by case, not stated as a rule.
How much visible unhappiness is acceptable?
One view
Some is the price. You want him to look scared and sad every once in a while if he gets to do lots of cool stuff. Brief sadness is weighed against a whole life.
On film
all right you want him to look scared and sad every once in a while but they get to like go do lots of cool stuff or alternatively they never look sad and sad and scared for a second but they don't get to do anything fun
Another view
The goal is a happy dog, not a suppressed one. Don't aim to suppress the dog, and don't push a nervous dog past what she can bank.
On film
best to do is not to completely suppress the dog because we want you to have happy bubble gum not
It's uh it messes up her quality of life and as well the quality of the training.
How to read it
Both sides are about degree. Nobody says where 'briefly sad' becomes 'suppressed'. See what-makes-a-correction-fair for sizing.
Common owner mistakes
- Managing instead of training: crating, gating and avoiding until the dog's world is the back yard.
On film
and they get to do less and less and less and less things. They never get to be out while people are around. They have to be in the crate.
King · Watch at 50:35 ↗ i kind of stopped going to the park okay because of that i used to go to park he's fine and you
Rocky (the Rottweiler) · Watch at 22:33 ↗ - Steering away from every other dog because yours can't behave.
On film
so many people do that they see another dog they avoid them with their dog because their dog can't behave good boy let's go up up here that is sad it's a bummer
King · Watch at 34:25 ↗ - Buying the 'supermax prisoner' plan for a reactive dog.
On film
is not okay because like a lot of times trainers will sell this as a solution as an example they might tell you okay here's what you got to do you need to take Milo and basically make him hide him away and treat him like a like a like a supermax prisoner
Milo · Watch at 5:43 ↗ - Judging the method by one sad moment on film instead of by the life it buys.
On film
That's like picking out a single time that a parent tells a kid no and they feel sad and they cry and say they're abusive parents.
Egg · Watch at 21:06 ↗ - Avoiding handling and vet-style restraint, so the dog can't be cared for later.
On film
He's going to have to have people manipulate his body. So it's important that he learns how to manage that kind of thing without freaking out.
Rocky · Watch at 21:06 ↗
Questions owners ask
Isn't it kinder to manage the problem and avoid situations he can't handle?
The trainers argue that management, used because the dog isn't trained, is what makes his life small. No walks, crated when people come, gates, rotas, hidden away like 'a supermax prisoner'. And the family often ends up resenting him anyway. They do accept some light management, such as a closed bedroom door, but not a life organised around keeping him away from things.
On film
that's what management does when you have to use management because your dog isn't trained you make their life uber small you can't trust them to do anything and so you're constantly restraining them managing them putting them in a tiny box
is not okay because like a lot of times trainers will sell this as a solution as an example they might tell you okay here's what you got to do you need to take Milo and basically make him hide him away and treat him like a like a like a supermax prisoner
How much discomfort are we actually talking about?
The trainers give it in their own terms: a few uncomfortable moments, 'one second up to like 45 seconds' in a serious case, 'cumulatively 20 minutes of sadness over the dog's life' in another. They weigh it against a life in the back yard, rehoming, or worse. The limits are that it feels ethical to you and cannot injure the dog.
On film
uncomfortable for you know you know one second up to like 45 seconds is very very uncomfortable but I get to go all over the place I can go anywhere versus don't punish me severely but my life is really small if it were me I'm picking the first option every time
but if i had to choose cumulatively 20 minutes of sadness over the dog's life for a few months versus they get really annoying you guys end up having a bad relationship with her and you end up giving her away or sticking her in her crate all day
Now people can punish their dogs any old way. Whatever feels ethical to you and whatever uh is not going to injure him. Those are the two boundaries that I have, right?
Won't a video of my dog being corrected look cruel?
The trainers expect that it can, and argue that welfare is judged on the whole life, not a snapshot. One compares judging training by one sad moment to calling a parent abusive for telling a child no once. Another widens the question to everyone affected: the owner, a jogger, a cyclist, and the dog.
On film
it's very humane as well because his welfare is the total of more than just was there any discomfort or was there any displeasure, right?
We feel bad about things. Yeah. Um, but I, that's why it's always helpful. Like I try to keep the total picture in mind. What's the total welfare question. Um, and so that total welfare question includes you. It includes the biker. It includes the jogger. Um, it includes Rocky.
My dog isn't aggressive. He just pulls and ignores me. Does this apply?
Yes, in its everyday form. A dog who pulls 'like a sled dog' gets taken to the park 'not very often'. One who walks nicely goes a lot more. The trade for a green dog is shown in one park: a dog the trainer 'could not take my eyes off' now has far more freedom.
On film
is allowed and then it makes it where now if your husky isn't you know trying to pull you like you're a sled right then that makes her life way better because how often are you going to take her to the
teach them things and by doing so you uh you open up their life look how much more freedom bullet has in comparison to what he had when we first came here when he first came here i could not take my eyes off him for one second
My dog is nervous, not pushy. Does the same trade apply?
Not automatically. With a nervous, frustrated dog, one handler judged that pushing a heel would risk a nip at a child and 'that's how dogs get put down all the time', so he held off. The trainers also say the goal is a happy dog, not a suppressed one. Ask your trainer whether the bargain is right for your dog yet.
On film
you know you he'll grind and then all of a sudden nips at like a four-year-old it's not a great look for you or your dog that's how dogs get put down all the time
best to do is not to completely suppress the dog because we want you to have happy bubble gum not
Is it really that serious for a dog-aggressive dog?
The trainers say it can be. Without help, they say, dogs like this are locked up and get worse, or do something really bad and are euthanized. Astro, by his trainer's report, had been recommended for euthanasia elsewhere. At his go-home his owner watched him walk without a muzzle.
On film
just in the toilet or another one is that dogs like this end up doing something really bad right and getting put down they get euthanized and that's
It's so beautiful seeing a muzzle off of him.
The lesson
The goal
The handler can state the bargain honestly to an owner, including its cost, its limits (ethical, non-injurious, contingent) and the dogs for whom it is withheld, and can help the owner name what their dog's life has already lost.
Learn first
See it done
- Option A or option B, put to a family. Watch at 49:58 ↗
- Managing a prison, named to a multi-dog household. Watch at 17:52 ↗
- The price conceded and the before-and-after shown in one park. Watch at 18:12 ↗
- The bargain withheld for a nervous dog, with the reason. Watch at 28:24 ↗
The drill
With the owner, list what the dog no longer does: walks at busy times, parks, visitors, gatherings, off-leash time, vet visits without sedation. Then state the trade in plain words, the way the trainers do, including the price. It should be a handful of uncomfortable moments that the dog can see coming and avoid, that the owner can live with ethically, and that cannot injure him. Ask the owner which option they would choose for the dog. If the dog is nervous or frustrated rather than pushy, say whether the bargain is being deferred, and why. (King watch; Zeus watch; Bullet watch; Lola watch.)
Watch out for
- Hiding the cost. The trainers name it first.
- Presenting it as a licence, without the limits of conscience, injury and contingency.
- Offering the bargain to every dog, including a frustrated, nervous one.
- Judging a method by one moment on film instead of by the whole life.
Check yourself
An owner says, 'I'd rather keep him in the back yard than ever see him uncomfortable.' What do you tell them? (The trainers' answer: that's a legitimate choice, but it is the small life. The alternative they offer is a handful of fair, avoidable, non-injurious corrections for a much bigger one.)