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Cases · Case

Marvin (Giant Schnauzer)

Who Marvin (Giant Schnauzer) is

As the trainer describes him

A giant Schnauzer: a big black male, very large, very young. No age, weight or origin is ever given.
On film

Three big doggies. Good job, guys. Got a Roddy. Got a Corso. Got a giant Schnauzer.

Watch at 2:21 ↗

with a dog named Marvin he's a giant schnauzer big huge black dog

Watch at 27:14 ↗

not because he's a bad dog or anything like that just because he's very large and he's very young and he's very hyper and he's also got a little bit of anxiety

Watch at 35:44 ↗
Not aggressive. A goofy giant who tries to dominate other dogs over a ball by standing over them. The owners say their pet sitters reported the same possessiveness.
On film

Generalized he doesn't he's not aggressive right now.

Watch at 3:46 ↗

He's yeah, he's kind of goofy giant dog. He's a little Bit of a he has a little bit of a dominant thing with other dogs.

Watch at 3:52 ↗

yeah he'll try to body him yeah he'll body him

Watch at 4:12 ↗

from some of the um rover folks who have watched him when we travel yeah that they're like hey you know he does he definitely doesn't want to give up that ball

Watch at 4:20 ↗
Very sensitive to social pressure. A gesture is enough to make him react. The owners had noticed the same thing and wondered whether he had been abused; the trainer says it is temperament.
On film

So you could be adding more pressure with an e-collar or with a leash or with social pressure because Marvin's really sensitive to it.

Watch at 12:09 ↗

it's funny you call that out because we've called that out you would think he was like abused or something yeah but he wasn't because if i open the front door too quick he'll power down

Watch at 12:26 ↗

just a temperament thing yeah just like there are kids that are shy

Watch at 13:00 ↗
He freezes under pressure. This shows up twice: as a hesitation during a recall, and as the core problem with the leash.
On film

Cause he has a tendency to freeze, right? When there's pressure.

Watch at 8:50 ↗

Yeah, he'd either freeze up like you're going to kill him.

Watch at 5:37 ↗
He barks along the fence at home. The trainer calls it barrier frustration, not aggression, and says it is the only time he has seen Marvin look aggressive.
On film

ever like look aggressive is behind a fence yeah but that's that's just what they call barrier frustration and a lot of dogs have barrier frustration

Watch at 6:54 ↗
Easily wound up by people. Excited praise indoors will make him jump. He plays rough, clacking his teeth. He is sensitive to the e-collar.
On film

he will immediately jump all over you oh yeah he'll get yeah yeah he's gonna get pumped and

Watch at 4:55 ↗

but smacking his teeth he's totally playing

Watch at 2:30 ↗

I mean he's very sensitive to it.

Watch at 10:22 ↗
Uncertain in very busy places. It is not clear from the audio whether the trainer or an owner says this.
On film

but like there's times where I've taken him into really busy environments. Yeah. And he has been uncertain.

Watch at 6:34 ↗

A minor practical detail: his coat covers his eyes, and a staff member mentions a bath and that he would not let anyone near his eyes. The speakers are not identified. It is recorded because it may explain some of the handling sensitivity, not as a finding.

On film

You can't see because you need a haircut, dude.

Watch at 3:27 ↗

He never let me even get near his eyes.

Watch at 8:52 ↗

As the family describes him

A family dog before anything else: good with their young daughter. Their fear before the program was that he would come back an 'army dog'.
On film

like we were like gosh i hope we don't get back and he's just like this army dog

Watch at 22:48 ↗
Hard to walk. Leash manners were their main reason for training.
On film

I would say the leash training was high on that for us.

Watch at 2:56 ↗
He pants and barks in the car and does better in a covered crate.
On film

than two times he pants yeah he'll bark a little bit

Watch at 17:29 ↗
They say he yelps if his paw is touched the wrong way.
On film

Sometimes he will like, if you like hit his paw in the wrong way.

Watch at 5:43 ↗

The program, stage by stage

Before the program: the family's account

Undated; before the board-and-train.

Everything in this stage is the owners speaking on the go-home day. They had done earlier training with another trainer when he was young. They are unsure whether it was at about six months or about a year. By their account it left walks tense, because he was held tight at their side and resisted it. Leash manners were their main reason for coming. At home he barks at the fence, which they value as protection, but he will not come in from it when called. They also report that he shuts down if the front door opens too fast, and that pet sitters found him unwilling to give up a ball. Their stated fear was losing the family dog they had.

On film

is a little bit relieving to us because sometimes we felt because we did training with him when he was just about a year yeah not even like six months six months i think it was

Watch at 24:14 ↗

us and because he needed to be right here next to it yeah so i think having that freedom also brings us joy because we want him to have fun

Watch at 24:57 ↗

i told him i was like i don't mind that but it would be nice when i could be like hey come back recall him right

Watch at 7:39 ↗

In the program, off camera: the evaluation and the authority eventTurning point

Undated; somewhere in the board-and-train. Nothing in this stage is filmed.

This is the centre of the case, and it exists only as the trainer's account on the go-home day. His evaluation found that Marvin handled leash pressure in one of two unproductive ways: he resisted it hard, planting and pulling away, or he froze 'like you're going to kill him'. The trainer treated the resisting as the thing that most needed fixing, because it destroys cooperation. His answer was what he calls an authority event: the conditioned punisher 'nope', a leash pop, and heavy spatial and social pressure, repeated about six times until the dog showed submission. Then an immediate release and a return to cheerful work so the dog could decompress. He also says they deliberately made Marvin more sensitive to leash pressure, so that by the end a small tap was enough. Down was taught the same way. The first attempt was a fight. Then he pushed Marvin into position until he went down smoothly, added the word, and removed the help. Separately, and in the opposite direction, he read Marvin's hesitation during a recall as uncertainty, a dog wrongly predicting a stim, and answered it with verbal encouragement instead of pressure. Ducks at the park served both as a recall proof and as the reward.

On film

Or by freezing. Okay. And both of those are bad reactions because you can't get anywhere with the dog.

Watch at 5:25 ↗

but if i were to have pulled on him right he would just go and plant and try everything he could to resist it

Watch at 7:10 ↗

I'm putting spatial and social pressure on at the same time and I'll say nope and pop and nope and pop I did it I probably did it to him like I probably said it like six times

Watch at 10:31 ↗

kid crying right but you see it looks like a kid that got in a lot of trouble like submission right

Watch at 10:45 ↗

and so the reason that that's possible is because we had cooperation and fulfillment together first um and then i introduced authority

Watch at 11:20 ↗

because we sensitized him to leash pressure a lot more than he was

Watch at 9:26 ↗

had a whole fight or something yeah um i had to like pull hard down

Watch at 20:22 ↗

and so then instead I'm just gonna verbally encourage Marvin come on come right over here right instead of putting pressure because he doesn't need pressure there he needs reassurance

Watch at 10:04 ↗

Two short in-house clips

Order between them unknown.

Nine minutes of footage in total, with almost no narration. In watch he is walked among trees and encouraged to mark, put in a down, and asked to heel. He gets a 'nope', then is recalled on 'here' and praised. He is then switched to a lighter line for ball play but loses interest and is called tired, although he had wanted the ball earlier while watching Shadow play. In watch the trainer lets him roam while 'hoping for an opportunity', then recalls him. Marvin goes to the camera person first, then sits with some help. Neither title's claim survives the audio. No e-collar is mentioned in the 'E-Collar' clip, and no duck is mentioned in the 'Ducks' clip. The ducks are more likely to be the trainer's go-home account of this kind of work than anything audible here.

On film

Marvin. Come on. Marvin, heel. Go ahead. Heel. Marvin. Nope. Come on. Marvin, here. Marvin, here.

Watch at 1:33 ↗

he was watching you earlier with shadow play with the ball he wanted to

Watch at 0:55 ↗

you left it you left it you left it marvin he's tired

Watch at 3:40 ↗

I was hoping for an opportunity.

Watch at 0:12 ↗

Alright, let me give you a little bit of help.

Watch at 0:51 ↗

The public outing with Shadow and Phoebe

The go-home day, on or before 2025-11-21, before the owners arrived.

Marvin is one of three large dogs out together in a public park: a Rottweiler (Phoebe, by elimination), Shadow the Cane Corso, and Marvin. He wears an e-collar. In Pt. 1 he is only named as one of the distractions Shadow works through. In Pt. 2 he joins group work. He is downed by name, all three are released together, then all three are distance-downed and left in position while the trainer walks off to fetch the ball, and they hold.

On film

You got the eco on him, right? Marvin, down.

Watch at 5:45 ↗

all the doggies aren't down they all got distance downed yeah oh yeah

Watch at 6:31 ↗

and let's see if they stay down while i go get the ball let's see oh they did good

Watch at 6:38 ↗

The reunion and the go-home lessonTurning point

The same afternoon; one continuous recording of about 76 minutes across four uploads.

Marvin at first does not notice his owners. When he does, a staff member calls it the most excited he has ever seen him. He is put back into downs with 'nope' through it, and the trainer reports that he did well. The trainer then explains why he lets a dog go wild at a reunion, and why this is the worst possible moment for the owners to learn anything. He asks for their concerns, gives his read of the dog, and lays out his framework: evaluation, cooperation, fulfillment, socialisation, then authority, with the four windows as a separate layer. He explains the authority event, words before tools, the implied stay, heel as a situational command, and house context. He hands over the e-collar with a level and a rule never to use the vibrate setting. Marvin appears in short demonstrations: a recall off a fence with a dog behind it on one 'nope', a middle and a down. At the end the owner handles him for the first time on camera: down, release, sit, recall. The owners' strongest response is relief that he came back a family dog.

On film

marvin dude you are amped right now this is the most amped that he's ever been in my entire history of seeing him

Watch at 9:22 ↗

He did really good. Yeah?

Watch at 10:12 ↗

The second thing that I tell people is that this is probably the worst possible learning environment for you.

Watch at 0:29 ↗

But you can see he recalled. I had to say nope once, but I didn't have to reinforce with anything, right?

Watch at 15:13 ↗

And he's clearly still a happy boy.

Watch at 23:08 ↗

Yeah, okay, I think he's going to do better with break.

Watch at 16:34 ↗

Skills

Responding to leash pressure

At the startBy the trainer's account, unproductive both ways: planting and resisting, or freezing as if in danger.
By the endBy the trainer's account, a small tap is enough, because they deliberately made him more sensitive to leash pressure. In the lesson he is heard to follow a light tug without trouble. There is no footage of a refusal after the program.

How it was taught

An authority event for refusal, reserved for problems that 'destroy cooperation': 'nope', a hard pop, and spatial and social pressure, about six times until submission, then an immediate release and decompression. Ordinary lapses get 'nope' and a light tap.

On film

And the reason is that that right there is the kind of thing that completely destroys cooperation.

Watch at 12:50 ↗

you're gonna see i'm gonna have to tug a little bit right okay totally fine he felt it once he recognized that

Watch at 12:24 ↗

because we sensitized him to leash pressure a lot more than he was

Watch at 9:26 ↗

Recall ('here')

At the startAt home, he will not come in from the fence (owners). In the program he sometimes hesitated or froze during a recall (trainer).
By the endShown in the lesson: called off a fence with a dog behind it, with one 'nope' and no further pressure. The owner recalls him at the end without comment. Never shown off leash at distance with his owners.

How it was taught

The trainer first reads why the dog stopped. A dog weighing whether to come gets e-collar pressure, with a long line for direction. An unsure dog gets encouragement. The recall is proofed off things Marvin wants, like ducks, and then he is released back to them.

On film

Right, so I might have to say nope just because that's like one of his things with the fence and another dog on the other side of it.

Watch at 15:06 ↗

Yeah, so I recall him off the Ducks and then I tell him okay go now you can go look at the Ducks

Watch at 2:02 ↗

Marvin, here. There you go. Good boy.

Watch at 1:59 ↗

Down, and the implied stay

At the startThe first down was a fight (trainer).
By the endPerformed in every recording. Held at a distance while the trainer walked away (group session). Given by the owner and held until release. Duration is implied, with no 'stay' word.

How it was taught

He pushed Marvin down until he went into position smoothly, then added the word, then took away the help until the cue works with hands in pockets. Breaking the down gets 'nope' and a re-cue; if Marvin still does not go down, a pop until he does.

On film

the position smoothly then i start marking it with the word down and then from there i start removing help

Watch at 21:00 ↗

day because it's implied if i said to down and they're in the down you're in the down still

Watch at 19:21 ↗

Tell him nope. And if he goes right back into the down, sick.

Watch at 17:21 ↗

Release ('break' or 'okay')

At the startThe trainer says he used both words but mostly 'break'.
By the endTested with the owner: he answers 'break' better, so 'break' is the family's word. The trainer's prediction in Part 2 matches the test in Part 3.

How it was taught

Not described. Every duration command ends only at the release.

On film

we did break with him i did a little bit of okay but i think he's heard break more often

Watch at 19:28 ↗

Alright, try break.

Watch at 16:30 ↗

Sit

At the startNot stated.
By the endIt tends to become a down, and the owner says it always has. Shown once with help in watch.

How it was taught

Not described.

On film

His sit's kind of always been down.

Watch at 16:41 ↗

There you go. Marvin, sit.

Watch at 0:33 ↗

Heel

At the startBefore the program, the owners had been taught to keep him at their side all the time.
By the endAsked for briefly in the in-house clip, with one 'nope'. At the lesson it is taught as a situational command: used for a few steps past nervous people, then released. A heel with a down in motion is started at the very end of Part 3, but the upload cuts off before it can be seen who does it.

How it was taught

Not described for Marvin. The owners are told to walk him on a long leash with freedom most of the time.

On film

But if they're like clearly like, that's a big dog, you know, be like, oh, Marvin, heel. Walk by him and then say, okay.

Watch at 27:19 ↗

Where you where you put them in a heel and you walk with them in the heel?

Watch at 18:50 ↗

Calm in the house, and an 'enough' for the fence

At the startHe plays so hard indoors that the rugs slide. At the fence he barks and ignores the owners.
By the endNot trained on camera. Given to the owners as instructions only: in the house, a loud 'nope' and shut it down until he is calm, calm praise, no excited praise. 'Enough' for the fence is agreed as a goal and never shown.

How it was taught

Not filmed.

On film

right he has well yeah he has and then we have we usually all the carpets and the rugs we have

Watch at 3:02 ↗

him nope really loud yeah just say nope and then go over there and he if he's still like be like nah shut the whole thing down

Watch at 3:36 ↗

Down, and the implied stay

Update. A new setting: down (twice) proofed at a public venue, with 'okay' releases and 'yep' as a marker.
On film

Marvin, here, my boy, Marvin, come on bud, down, okay, good job, Marvin, yep, yep, come on, yep, there you go, yep, down,

Watch at 0:01 ↗

Recall ('here')

Update. Recall on 'here' at the same public venue, and a recall run after a down at the end of the prank clip.
On film

Good boy, down, hey, down, you smart doggy, okay, yeah, come on, come on, come on, good boy

Watch at 0:34 ↗

From the Shorts

Short clips posted from Marvin (Giant Schnauzer)'s training. They are undated, so they sit beside the program rather than inside it.

Down, sit and recall in public

In a public place (a restaurant in Cary, by the title) the handler runs Marvin through down, sit, recall and down again with quick praise and releases. On the sit the handler says 'I see you thought about it', noting a moment's hesitation.

Watch the Short at 0:01 ↗

On film

Marvin, yeah, good job, Marvin down, Marvin, sit, I see you thought about it, okay, oh, yeah, Marvin, here, my boy, Marvin, come on bud, down, okay, good job

Watch at 0:01 ↗

How the method adapted

Marvin's case turns on a single problem: the same dog was very sensitive to social pressure and also completely indifferent to leash pressure. The trainer did not treat those as contradictory. He read each stop separately, and the adaptations below follow from that.

The trainer answers two stops that look alike in opposite ways: reassurance for a freeze of uncertainty, and authority for a plant of refusal.

His rule is that evaluation comes first and never stops. A dog that stops mid-recall because it expects a stim is 'predicting the wrong thing' and needs the prediction corrected. A dog that plants against the leash is refusing, and refusal destroys cooperation. From the outside the two look the same. The trainer tells them apart by reading the dog, and never says on camera what he looks for. That is the open question at the heart of the case.

On film

add pressure but in the other one where he that looks like a dog that's like unsure maybe he's thinking oh they recalled maybe i'm gonna get stemmed right so then it's like okay well he's predicting the wrong thing

Watch at 9:49 ↗

right so so then it's like okay well with that second one that was a big problem so what what you do with that is that's when you when when authority makes sense

Watch at 6:13 ↗

Authority came last, after cooperation and fulfillment were in place. It was one concentrated event, not a steady stream of corrections.

His order is evaluation, cooperation, fulfillment, socialisation, then authority, so that 'when you use authority you don't hurt the relationship'. He compares it to a teenager who is left alone most of the time and so listens when it matters. The event is meant to be unpleasant; his word is 'spanking'. It is also meant to end the moment it has worked.

On film

said you know because there's already already cooperation and fulfillment there then I can get to the last one right so the next one socialization and then there's authority yeah so then when you use authority you don't hurt the relationship

Watch at 4:21 ↗

getting a spanking essentially right um and i would do it but i wouldn't just do it once

Watch at 8:44 ↗

Now he can have an awesome time and go all over the place because when it needs to happen we make a scene

Watch at 13:31 ↗

They made him more sensitive to leash pressure, deliberately, so the long-term cost would be lower.

A dog that ignores a prong collar can only be handled with force. After the program a light tap does the job, and the owners notice they no longer have to pull hard. It is the same logic as the e-collar: a very sensitive dog on a low level, with 'nope' as the warning he has learned to expect.

On film

because we sensitized him to leash pressure a lot more than he was

Watch at 9:26 ↗

Even if you say nope like there was a moment where I would say nope and he'd feel it coming and he'd already be Tensing up and okay, okay, which is what you want

Watch at 10:27 ↗

Motivation came from the world around him, not from treats: ducks, trees, tug and the ball.

The trainer says dogs became more motivated once he stopped using treats, and he admits that six months earlier this handover would have been treat-based. For Marvin, going back to the ducks is the reward for coming away from them.

On film

you can use it as training right because it gives you two opportunities one it gives you an opportunity to proof recall right and then number two is it gives you an opportunity to use it as motivation

Watch at 1:05 ↗

The owners' own wishes were kept: the fence guarding stays, and walks are loose, not heel-bound.

The owners want the fence protectiveness kept, and the trainer confirms they did nothing to remove it. What they need is a recall and an 'enough'. After their earlier experience of heel-bound walks, they are told to give him far more freedom than feels right, and to use heel only briefly for a purpose.

On film

Well, the good news is that we didn't do anything. That's not gone, right?

Watch at 3:34 ↗

say is get used to giving him way more freedom than you think you should

Watch at 15:42 ↗

What the family was told

Why the reunion is chaos, and what that means for learning

Yeah. Why? Because, why try to control that?

Watch at 0:09 ↗

The high is gonna go down and then you're gonna be like, hmm. What about this? Yeah, what about that?

Watch at 1:05 ↗

The framework: five steps, then windows

there's like there's like five steps in any training program that i think are important

Watch at 7:57 ↗

we evaluate right what are you even like looking at and that that's all along the process

Watch at 8:15 ↗

So everything is kind of like pressure and release, even positive reinforcement training, pressure and release.

Watch at 11:57 ↗

Walks: freedom, a long leash, cheer the sniffing

So you should be thinking about what does Marvin want to do? And think, well, is it okay if he does that? Yeah. If the answer is no, well, then you don't let him do it. And then you get him to do something else.

Watch at 11:29 ↗

favorite tool in probably all of dog training is a retractable leash

Watch at 16:24 ↗

the problem is you're always trying if people are always heel grinding the

Watch at 13:40 ↗

The authority event and ordinary 'nope'

So watch out for that. If you see that, respond that way. Right.

Watch at 13:01 ↗

Now, if you notice that he makes a habit of making you say nope multiple times.

Watch at 15:19 ↗

Words first, with one exception

So I would say, nope, always verbal first.

Watch at 16:31 ↗

because they remember whatever's first in the chain.

Watch at 16:37 ↗

And that's if they're doing something that you want to get rid of entirely and never have it even start ever again.

Watch at 18:35 ↗

Heel is situational

number of times that I actually want them to heal it's pretty small but I think of heal it's not a way to take a dog on a walk instead it is a command with a particular function right the function is situational

Watch at 25:48 ↗

The four windows, and obedience as a band-aid

from another trainer his name is jay jack it's called windows so windows are like contexts for dog's life

Watch at 28:50 ↗

the reason that we get clients is because the dog doesn't know the first three

Watch at 29:40 ↗

So anytime that we don't want him in the way place, right? I look at that as a kind of like a band-aid

Watch at 30:40 ↗

The house: free when you are home, crated when you are out, calm energy

then if he does something dumb make him make it clear to him that that was dumb don't do that again and that's it

Watch at 0:17 ↗

that things were exciting right now yeah right so if you don't want that then don't don't give him that signal

Watch at 5:11 ↗

the house yeah because i don't i look i i trust him supervised

Watch at 35:35 ↗

The e-collar handover: level, fit, wear it all day, never the vibrate

He's normally on like a 10 or 15.

Watch at 10:04 ↗

i would have him wear it most of the time okay um one of the reasons for that is you don't want them to become wise to what it is

Watch at 11:23 ↗

never ever use a vibrate button yeah he doesn't know what it means and when he it'll probably scare him more than him feeling the shock

Watch at 12:15 ↗

myself yeah i don't need to press a button on a collar i can i can speak so i can tell him nope

Watch at 14:12 ↗

Maintenance: live with him, send videos, come to the park

drills yeah you just need to live take him on walks and play with them and have him in a house

Watch at 9:05 ↗

if you're having any kind of issue take a video of it and send it to there

Watch at 7:10 ↗
In the family's own words

Their concerns, in order: excitement, reactivity, focus, then above all the leash.

On film

what are your main concerns I think it was just general like excitement reactivity like just being able to keep his focus

Watch at 2:14 ↗

Their thanks is for what did not change.

On film

no yeah he's a family dog so thank you

Watch at 22:53 ↗

And he's clearly still a happy boy.

Watch at 23:08 ↗

They report a success of their own in the yard: throwing the ball off leash and having him come back into the fence.

On film

But, like, I would throw the ball down the hill to the backyard. Yeah. And I'd just say, you know, he'd wait, and I'd say, go get it.

Watch at 33:37 ↗

Their one e-collar question is practical: whether it stays on at night.

On film

Do you take it off at night?

Watch at 11:05 ↗

Outcomes

What the trainers reported

He did well at the reunion and in the group session.

Staff, to the owners, on the go-home day

On film

He did really good. Yeah?

Watch at 10:12 ↗

Leash refusal is fixed. A small tap now does what a prong collar could not.

The trainer, go-home Part 2

On film

because we sensitized him to leash pressure a lot more than he was

Watch at 9:26 ↗

He is a sensitive dog who needs no more than 10 or 15 on the e-collar.

The trainer, go-home Part 3

On film

He's normally on like a 10 or 15. He doesn't need more than that.

Watch at 10:04 ↗

He came back the same happy family dog.

The owners, go-home Part 2

On film

And he's clearly still a happy boy.

Watch at 23:08 ↗

What the footage shows

A recall away from a fence with a dog behind it, on one 'nope', with no further pressure.

On film

Marvin! Here! Here! Nope! Nope! Here. Come on. Go ahead.

Watch at 14:58 ↗

A distance down held with two other large dogs while the handler walked off to fetch a ball.

On film

and let's see if they stay down while i go get the ball let's see oh they did good

Watch at 6:38 ↗

The owner gets a down, a release on 'break', a down held while the owner walks away, and a recall, on the first try with coaching.

On film

All right, walk away from him.

Watch at 17:06 ↗

okay that looks good

Watch at 17:42 ↗

A heel with an error marked 'nope', then a recall, and he tires quickly of ball play on a line.

On film

Marvin, heel. Go ahead. Heel. Marvin. Nope.

Watch at 1:33 ↗
How it ended. Marvin (Giant Schnauzer) went home.

The ideas Marvin (Giant Schnauzer)'s case runs on