Field Notes · An evolving learning library from Angier K9

The session: dose, venue and proofing · Switch him on, then ask for off

Why does my dog stop listening when he gets excited?

A dog who only ever practised commands while calm has never practised them excited, so the trainers get him fired up in play and then ask for place, sit or down until calming down on cue is the skill.

The answer

Because he has probably only practised listening while calm, and the trainers say calm does not carry over to excited. One trainer puts it in five words - "calm does not generalize to excited" - and adds that in his experience with hundreds of dogs, training done while excited does carry to other exciting situations. Another puts it in numbers: if a dog only ever trains at seven out of ten energy, the last three points are uncharted, and when he hits eight the command starts to slip. That is the moment most owners meet: the doorbell, the dog across the street, the family coming home.

So the program does the opposite of calm drills. The dog is switched on - hard tug, frisbee, a chase, the peak of a game, sometimes with other dogs barking nearby - and then asked for place, sit or down, so he has to go from sixty miles an hour to zero. One trainer calls the ability to switch between those states the thing that requires the most impulse control, and says it is drilled into every dog. The goal is framed as teaching the dog to chill out, not suppressing him: a month of joyless drilling is called suppression that trainers are not willing to do.

The same idea runs through protection work as the on/off switch. A protection dog must be able to light up at a real threat and then be turned off completely by the owner's 'out' - and switched back on inside the same encounter. Obedience and the bite get separate words so the dog cannot bite by mistake, and the call-off comes before any protection work at all.

Said on film: the calm-does-not-generalise claim, the seven-out-of-ten reasoning, the play-then-command drill, the on/off switch in protection. Inferred: that an owner's 'he only listens at home' is usually this, and that calm-setting habituation does not reach the loose, amped scenario that actually causes trouble - one trainer states the latter for a reactive dog at evaluation.

What to do

Practise commands when he is excited, not only when he is calm: play hard, then ask for place, sit or down, release him back to the game, and repeat. Keep the word that ends play ('out') neutral and fun, and use a different word for things he must never do.

On film

boom and then place and he's got to chill out right so it's the ability to switch between those things that requires the most impulse control

Bernie · Watch at 9:59 ↗

Like a child. Yeah, that's not an out. That's an eh. That's never, never do it, right?

Kane · Watch at 2:39 ↗

What the trainers say

calm does not generalize to excited

the trainer · Max (Goldendoodle) · Watch at 6:24 ↗

experienced with hundreds and hundreds of dogs it does generalize from excited to excited

the trainer · Max (Goldendoodle) · Watch at 6:54 ↗

So if you get them all excited and you're playing, playing, playing, playing, playing, having a good time, and then you're able to take it from that to down, that makes all the difference in the world.

the trainer · Max (Goldendoodle) · Watch at 7:31 ↗

Energetic because if you train a dog to listen on when their energy is seven out of ten when they hit that eight out of ten hyped up what then the distractions too high and now the training goes down

Connor · Titan · Watch at 0:22 ↗

handler yeah so like they might be good but once they hit an 8 out of 10 on their energy level all of a sudden like the command starts to slip maybe

Connor - the handler narrating · Boog · Watch at 14:19 ↗

one of the problems that apollo's owners have is that he gets amped up and then he doesn't listen well how do you train for that do you do a bunch of calm food drills and you go sit and you give him a treat

the trainer · Apollo (the Sharkie) · Watch at 5:35 ↗

you obligate it in their highest arousal when there are the most amped up

the trainer · Apollo (the Sharkie) · Watch at 6:04 ↗

boom and then place and he's got to chill out right so it's the ability to switch between those things that requires the most impulse control

the trainer · Bernie · Watch at 9:59 ↗

excitement and then you're asking them to do something. So they have to go from 60 miles an hour to zero really fast, which is what you're training for anyway, right?

the trainer, at the go-home lesson · Bernie · Watch at 43:45 ↗

and then you're not doing it when they're calm you're doing it when they're amped right

the trainer · Fiona · Watch at 6:20 ↗

very high arousal and so being able to have a dog to obedience and low arousal not at all close to doing it in high arousal so that's why I prefer to do all the training and play

Sputnik · Watch at 30:38 ↗

not with any dog we work with with the impulse control not suppressing the dog but just teaching the dog how to like just chill out

Connor - the trainer · Cosmo · Watch at 0:33 ↗

getting them excited playing with the dog getting them really engaged and then having them calm down teaches their brain how to get past that nervousness

Apollo (the Bully) · Watch at 6:49 ↗

we have the engine there ready like revved up we just need to be able to turn it down and turn it just basically have a stronger off switch

the trainer · Bane · Watch at 44:40 ↗

right um what you need to be able to do though is like all right like you should be able to out him like this and then afterwards charge it back up right even within the same thing

the lead trainer · Bane · Watch at 8:49 ↗

because if it's the same thing for all of it he could get confused and he could accidentally bite when he's not supposed to

Christian - the trainer · Savage · Watch at 9:36 ↗

habituation they get used to like oh there's other dogs around the people are nice to me things are cool like it's not that bad right but then that doesn't help really at all in the the situation i described over here

the evaluating trainer · Roman · Watch at 55:20 ↗

How it looks, dog by dog

Max (Goldendoodle)

The theory stated in full during an evening indoor session. The trainer plays Max up and asks for down, heel entry and sit, calling it impulse control - go way up and bring it back down. He then argues that emotional state and distraction level matter more to generalisation than surface details, that calm training does not reach excitement, and that excited-to-excited transfer is what lets you train anywhere.

On film

is more impulse control and to go way up and then be able to bring it back down

Watch at 1:14 ↗

calm does not generalize to excited

Watch at 6:24 ↗

So if you get them all excited and you're playing, playing, playing, playing, playing, having a good time, and then you're able to take it from that to down, that makes all the difference in the world.

Watch at 7:31 ↗

Bernie

Day three: hard tug, 'out', then place, and he has to chill out and not chase the toy when it is tossed. The trainer says the switch is drilled into every dog. At the go-home lesson he explains it to the family as the reason for training in games: a dog who listens only when calm has learned nothing that helps at the front door.

On film

The main goal is to be able to quickly switch him on and off of a higher arousal state.

Watch at 9:49 ↗

boom and then place and he's got to chill out right so it's the ability to switch between those things that requires the most impulse control

Watch at 9:59 ↗

when he was like calm, great. He listens to me when we're calm and nothing's going on. Cool.

Watch at 44:00 ↗

Apollo (the Sharkie)

A Malinois whose owners' one reported problem was that he gets amped up and stops listening. The trainer rejects calm food drills as the answer and obligates commands at the top of the tug game; at a store outing staff agree his remaining off-leash work is proofing for excitement; at the go-home the trainer says pressure was built inside games, where it is easier to take.

On film

one of the problems that apollo's owners have is that he gets amped up and then he doesn't listen well how do you train for that do you do a bunch of calm food drills and you go sit and you give him a treat

Watch at 5:35 ↗

You have to extra proof the off leash for the excitement and like teach them to like stop being excited for a minute

Watch at 11:39 ↗

integrated into the games we used pressure which is much easier to do in games than it is not in

Watch at 40:37 ↗

Titan

Connor tells Titan's owner the dog is worked at maximum excitement because obedience learned at seven out of ten fails at eight; the last points of excitement are the final stage before off-leash work.

On film

Energetic because if you train a dog to listen on when their energy is seven out of ten when they hit that eight out of ten hyped up what then the distractions too high and now the training goes down

Watch at 0:22 ↗

Boog

Two staff on a walk agree Boog needs play to burn drive and that training a tired dog is good for laying a base - but the narrator adds that every dog should eventually be brought to ten, or commands slip at eight.

On film

But actually, training tired's good

Watch at 13:53 ↗

on 10 because if you only ever get them to like a 7 out of 10 in terms of energy then there's going to be three points left that is like very like uncharted territory

Watch at 14:09 ↗

Fiona

E-collar introduction woven into frisbee tug, with dogs barking nearby: ramp her up, then place, sit or down, so she learns to bring herself down on command and the conditioned punisher is strengthened while she is amped.

On film

and then you're not doing it when they're calm you're doing it when they're amped right

Watch at 6:20 ↗

um make it such that they can go from up here to they can bring it back down on command so i'm

Watch at 6:32 ↗

Sputnik

At the three-dog go-home lesson the trainer explains why the obedience was built in play: a sit in the living room does not transfer to the street with a dog playing ball nearby.

On film

very high arousal and so being able to have a dog to obedience and low arousal not at all close to doing it in high arousal so that's why I prefer to do all the training and play

Watch at 30:38 ↗

Cosmo

A happy, over-aroused dog. Two sessions state the frame from both sides: impulse control is teaching the dog to chill out, not suppressing him, and a month of drilling a dog who is getting nothing out of it turns into suppression.

On film

not with any dog we work with with the impulse control not suppressing the dog but just teaching the dog how to like just chill out

Watch at 0:33 ↗

getting anything at some point it just becomes like a mean like suppression thing i'm really just not cool with

Watch at 28:01 ↗

Levi

An excitable doodle who kind of knows his sits. Impulse control is built as duration - time near him, then more time, a little at a time - with place work alongside, and measured by whether he gets up. The calm-duration route rather than the amped one.

On film

just like being near him and then afterwards adding duration little by

Watch at 5:32 ↗

do is levi sit he's nice and focused which again he's a little worked up now but i can just like

Watch at 13:23 ↗

Lunna

The distinction that explains her program: some dogs cannot hear the command; others hear it and cannot hold it once excited. Lunna is the second kind, so her weeks went to impulse control and a strict hold-until-released rule.

On film

getting them listen other dogs challenge is not getting them to listen it's

Watch at 4:01 ↗

her impulse control is just like naturally was not great so we had to work with

Watch at 0:14 ↗

Apollo (the Bully)

The same cycle used for nerves rather than excitement: get the nervous dog excited and engaged, then have him calm down, and repeat. Christian says it teaches the brain to get past the nervousness.

On film

getting them excited playing with the dog getting them really engaged and then having them calm down teaches their brain how to get past that nervousness

Watch at 6:49 ↗

Bane

The protection version. The drive was built early; the filmed home work is the off switch. Lighting up at the door is welcome, as long as the owner's 'everything's fine, out' turns him off - completely - and he can be switched back on inside the same encounter. The trainer's summary: the engine is revved, it needs brakes.

On film

kind of starts to chill out which will get him where he can do a better and better on and off switch even with me

Watch at 3:41 ↗

we have the engine there ready like revved up we just need to be able to turn it down and turn it just basically have a stronger off switch

Watch at 44:40 ↗

right um what you need to be able to do though is like all right like you should be able to out him like this and then afterwards charge it back up right even within the same thing

Watch at 8:49 ↗

Bandit

A dog headed for protection work: the same bark is corrected on a greenway walk and will be encouraged with a decoy. The rule is not 'never bark' but 'not off cue'.

On film

drive right but then in a scenario like this it's contextual right so if i don't ask him for it right it's not on cue i don't want him doing it

Watch at 8:20 ↗

Savage

Separate words for separate modes: one release ends a command without the toy, another sends him to the toy, so obedience and bite never share a word.

On film

his normal release we're doing b-r-e-a-k so if he's in a command i just want him to release without biting the toy

Watch at 9:18 ↗

because if it's the same thing for all of it he could get confused and he could accidentally bite when he's not supposed to

Watch at 9:36 ↗

Kane

The family asked about protection. Kelton's answer: obedience and a neutral call-off come first, because the dog must be able to be called off; 'out' stays neutral and fun, while 'eh' is reserved for never-do-it.

On film

teach this it's fun actually we're playing if i say out and i mean it as a punishment what's going to happen are they going to want to keep playing no they suddenly don't want to play anymore

Watch at 2:04 ↗

Like a child. Yeah, that's not an out. That's an eh. That's never, never do it, right?

Watch at 2:39 ↗

Roman

At evaluation the trainer tells the owners why the previous plan of counter-conditioning and calm time will not reach the real problem: habituation makes him mellow where things are already under control, not when he is loose and amped.

On film

habituation they get used to like oh there's other dogs around the people are nice to me things are cool like it's not that bad right but then that doesn't help really at all in the the situation i described over here

Watch at 55:20 ↗

Why it works

The trainers' explanation is about what generalises. Emotional state and distraction level, one says, have a stronger effect on transfer than the ground or the room; a command practised hundreds of times while calm does not function when the dog is suddenly very excited, while a command practised excited transfers to other excited situations (Max the goldendoodle). The numerical version: the untrained top of the energy range is where commands slip (Boog, Titan). Inside a game, a second benefit is claimed: pressure is more tolerable and the conditioned punisher is strengthened while the dog is amped (Apollo the Sharkie, Fiona). For nerves, the cycle of excite-then-calm is said to teach the brain to get past nervousness (Apollo the Bully).

On film

what I found has a stronger effect

Watch at 6:01 ↗

experienced with hundreds and hundreds of dogs it does generalize from excited to excited

Watch at 6:54 ↗

handler yeah so like they might be good but once they hit an 8 out of 10 on their energy level all of a sudden like the command starts to slip maybe

Watch at 14:19 ↗

with it right um so pain becomes more tolerable if you think about most sports they almost always

Watch at 41:26 ↗

so uh you strengthen the conditioned punisher which in her case is and right and then you also

Watch at 6:25 ↗

getting them excited playing with the dog getting them really engaged and then having them calm down teaches their brain how to get past that nervousness

Watch at 6:49 ↗

Inferred

That 'state, not place' is the variable is the trainers' experience-based claim, stated as such ('by my lights'); no controlled comparison is on film.

Where the trainers differ

Start calm or start amped?

One view

Lay the base calm or tired and build impulse control as duration a little at a time (Boog's 'training tired's good', Levi's added duration).

On film

But actually, training tired's good

Boog · Watch at 13:53 ↗

just like being near him and then afterwards adding duration little by

Levi · Watch at 5:32 ↗

Another view

Do most of the training amped; the trainer at Max the goldendoodle's session attributes ninety percent of the program's training to that, and Kelton prefers to do all of it in play.

On film

So if you get them all excited and you're playing, playing, playing, playing, playing, having a good time, and then you're able to take it from that to down, that makes all the difference in the world.

Max (Goldendoodle) · Watch at 7:31 ↗

very high arousal and so being able to have a dog to obedience and low arousal not at all close to doing it in high arousal so that's why I prefer to do all the training and play

Sputnik · Watch at 30:38 ↗

How to read it

Boog's narrator states both in one breath - tired for the base, ten for the proof - which reads as sequencing rather than disagreement. Left unresolved here.

Is this suppression?

One view

Impulse control is teaching the dog to chill out, not suppressing him (Cosmo).

On film

not with any dog we work with with the impulse control not suppressing the dog but just teaching the dog how to like just chill out

Cosmo · Watch at 0:33 ↗

Another view

Obligating a command at the highest arousal is explicitly insistence under pressure (Apollo the Sharkie: 'you must sit you must down').

On film

you obligate it in their highest arousal when there are the most amped up

Apollo (the Sharkie) · Watch at 6:04 ↗

How to read it

The trainers do not see these as opposed; recorded because an owner reading both might.

Common owner mistakes

  • Practising commands only when nothing is happening, then expecting them at the door.
    On film

    when he was like calm, great. He listens to me when we're calm and nothing's going on. Cool.

    Bernie · Watch at 44:00 ↗
  • Relying on calm time, habituation and treats around other dogs to fix a reaction that happens when the dog is loose and amped.
    On film

    habituation they get used to like oh there's other dogs around the people are nice to me things are cool like it's not that bad right but then that doesn't help really at all in the the situation i described over here

    Roman · Watch at 55:20 ↗
  • Using the call-off word as a punishment, so the dog stops wanting to play and the off switch is poisoned.
    On film

    teach this it's fun actually we're playing if i say out and i mean it as a punishment what's going to happen are they going to want to keep playing no they suddenly don't want to play anymore

    Kane · Watch at 2:04 ↗

Questions owners ask

My dog is perfect at home and useless outside. Is it the place?

The trainers say it is more often the state. Commands practised while calm do not function when the dog is suddenly excited; commands practised while excited carry over to other exciting places. So they get the dog amped up in play indoors and then ask for a down - which, one says, lets you train anywhere.

On film

calm does not generalize to excited

Max (Goldendoodle) · Watch at 6:24 ↗

So what that allows you to do is as long as you get them excited, you can train anywhere

Max (Goldendoodle) · Watch at 7:44 ↗

Won't winding him up before training make things worse?

That is the point of the exercise. Bernie's trainer tugs hard, then asks for place, and says the switch between those states is what requires the most impulse control; the family is told the dog has to go from sixty to zero, which is what you are training for anyway.

On film

boom and then place and he's got to chill out right so it's the ability to switch between those things that requires the most impulse control

Bernie · Watch at 9:59 ↗

excitement and then you're asking them to do something. So they have to go from 60 miles an hour to zero really fast, which is what you're training for anyway, right?

Bernie · Watch at 43:45 ↗

Isn't impulse control just suppressing a happy dog?

The trainers say no, and draw the line themselves: impulse control is teaching the dog to chill out, and a month of joyless drilling is suppression they will not do.

On film

not with any dog we work with with the impulse control not suppressing the dog but just teaching the dog how to like just chill out

Cosmo · Watch at 0:33 ↗

getting anything at some point it just becomes like a mean like suppression thing i'm really just not cool with

Cosmo · Watch at 28:01 ↗

For a protection dog, what does 'off' mean?

Off completely, not a pause - and then back on if needed, inside the same encounter. Bane's trainer asks the owner to out him and then charge him back up; Kane's family is told the call-off comes before any protection work.

On film

right um what you need to be able to do though is like all right like you should be able to out him like this and then afterwards charge it back up right even within the same thing

Bane · Watch at 8:49 ↗

Like a child. Yeah, that's not an out. That's an eh. That's never, never do it, right?

Kane · Watch at 2:39 ↗

The lesson

The goal

The dog can go from full play to a held place, sit or down on one cue, and back.

Learn first

The drill

[object Object]

Watch out for

  • Only running calm drills (Bernie go-home 44:00).
  • Making 'out' a punishment so play stops working (Kane 02:04).
  • One release word for both obedience and bite work (Savage 09:36).

Check yourself

When he is at his most excited, does one cue bring him down - and can you switch him back on afterwards?