The answer
Across fifteen dogs the trainers describe the same thing in different shapes. Under pressure, a dog that already knows the command reaches for something else and checks whether it ends the pressure: Kodak lies down mid-exercise to see if he will be let off; Chunk flops, walks away, offers a sit when asked for a down, or drops into a command to make peace when he is marked with no command in force; Bullet climbs onto the handler instead of downing away from him; Dolce takes herself to her place bed; Mazi offers submission (and, by the trainer's account, so did an earlier small bully he names only in passing); Rocky squirms between the handler's legs and rolls on his stomach; Dutchess and Penny leave, and Penny and Drago run for the truck; Whiskey gets up and circles; Major pulls, cries and acts out after his owner's correction. On film the trainers read these as strategies rather than inability or pain - Dutchess's trainer says outright that running from the collar does not mean it is hurting her, Major's trainer tells an owner who thought she was hurting him that he was 'not wanting to accept a correction' (while also checking whether the prong had caught his hair), and Whiskey's trainer says there is no blame in her trying routes that used to work.
What the trainers do about it is mostly geometry, not force. Bullet's handler gives the line to a second person who simply holds it, so he cannot come in and the down is the only answer left. Rocky's trainer uses two lines, or at home a back-tie, to make the appeasement physically impossible. With Stormie the handlers stop the dog reaching the sit she was bracing from, and the down arrives. With Dolce the answer is to make the handler's side the safe place, lower the ask to standing beside him, and rebuild her mood with a tug before going again. Where the exit is running away, the trainers make it not work: Dutchess's trainer holds two conditions at once - gentler so she is not frightened of the collar, clearer so the right answer is obvious - while Penny's trainer, faced with a dog running to the truck, turned the collar up so that running there made things worse.
Two cautions run through the record. An escape that is allowed to work once can become the dog's solution: Drago learned to answer come by running to the truck after one long-line escape, which the trainer owns as his own mistake. Chunk's trainer says the same about a smaller exit: release the sit he offers instead of a down and he learns 'a pattern i can build where i can like get out of it by sitting'. And the same outward behaviour can mean different things - Piglet's trainer says the sad-looking crawl is avoidance and she is not scared, yet a few days earlier the same file records that she suppressed more than he expected. Telling a tested exit from a dog that has run out of options is the handler's job, and the record does not give a single rule for it. Nor is every alternative refused: at Boog's go-home lesson, when a test of wills ended with Boog going into a down instead of the sit he was put into, the trainer let it stand - 'i really didn't care' - because what mattered was that the test ended. That last point is inference from the files, not something a trainer says in one sentence.
Angier K9 is a family-owned, play-based Board & Train serving Angier, Raleigh and the Triangle, with three full owner lessons.
What to do
Watch what your dog does instead of the command and treat it as his exit, not as disobedience or pain. Never let the exit work: do not go soft when he squirms or rolls over, do not count coming to you as a down, keep the leash on until the recall is proven. Where you can, set things up so the exit is physically unavailable - a helper holding the line still, or a back-tie at home - and ask again. If he tries one last escape after things had got better, do not quit there.
What the trainers say
and that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a little bit of acceptance here because right now his response to feeling that pressure and feeling like he wants to get off and get away is to try to get off and get away or get off and come to me or something like that. And what he needs to learn is that no, no, no. He has to accept it. He has to accept it and do what I asked.
because that's the only thing i'm having any kind of issues with with them is he's doing like that thing where dogs get kind of they get a little suppressed and then what they do is they just like try to like get on top of you and they won't down or sit like away from you
I know your option that you're taking there is just to lay down and see if i let you do it okay little boy we'll come out better for it
of has a tendency where she'll just kind of try to blow me off or run away from the e-collar pressure, right? Um It does not mean that the e-collar pressure is hurting her, but her reaction to it is that I can get out of it if I run away. So, we're teaching her that it's not really a viable option.
seeing if if there's an alternative to actually going into the position um seeing if like you know just like refusing to do it um or getting up and like you know circling see if any of those things work you know which i don't blame her for trying them right because if those things immediately get her out of pressure or have immediately gotten her out of pressure in the past then i mean i would try them too
mean that like as the trainer i don't have to you know help her to see that hey like those pathways go they lead nowhere they don't work at all right
right like because he's like he's quick with it so we're making the appeasement behavior impossible he can't he can't go and like do all of that mess that he's doing
I think at the same time too, she associates the place with safety, and so if she feels like she's not doing something up to par, or if she's getting a little pressure, she'll go to the place which you know she clearly knows place but um you don't want to have that too much
coping mechanisms and i'm trying to make it very obvious to her that that kind of stuff did not work that's one of the other points of the proofing phase is if they have any habit like that i need to erase it
are training a bully breed they very often do something that is primarily primarily based in like avoidance right um which is they will see if they can avoid the command even after they've already learned it
So what she was doing there, or what he was doing there, she kept trying to like submit in hopes.
And then just don't let the sit happen?
But he learned one thing that was a mistake on my part that I did not want him to learn.
i would say next time don't say okay because what he learns is like this is like a pattern i can build where i can like get out of it by sitting and so like you reinforce them to be a punk
in this case he wasn't like there was no command that he was under and so when you said and he was like i don't know so he just went into a command right there in hopes that you'd just be like okay we're cool
so this is the kind of stuff that you have to do with him though is that like that wrestling stuff so like every now and then he'll try to test me he's gonna do the same thing with you
using the prong collar and it's because um she went to correct him over the weekend and he freaked out and she thought she she was hurting him but what he was really doing is not wanting to accept a correction
How it looks, dog by dog
Bullet
Bullet's exit closes distance instead of opening it: off the place cot and onto the handler, or climbing on him instead of downing away from him. It looks like affection and is scored as the same failure as running off. The fix on film is a second person holding the line dead still so he cannot come in; the trainer calls it the only thing still wrong at the end of the program.
On film
and that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a little bit of acceptance here
because that's the only thing i'm having any kind of issues with with them is he's doing like that thing where dogs get kind of they get a little suppressed
And just don't let it pass through your hands. Just hold it steady. Don't let it move.
Kodak
Kodak, the nervous dog of his pair, lies down in the middle of a hard rep and waits to see whether he will be allowed to stay there. The trainer names the option and declines it, telling him he will come out better for it. In a later sit he tries jumping up on the trainer as a last-ditch way out, which the trainer calls an extinction burst and says not to quit on.
On film
I know your option that you're taking there is just to lay down and see if i let you do it
of extinction burst right where they they kind of do like almost like a last-ditch effort to try to get out of it right they're like well let me try this
Chunk
Chunk freezes and flops into a down, thrashing if the handler keeps walking, or simply walks away from the cue; at his first owner lesson the trainer adds that he would go down and watch to see whether he would be made to do anything, and that he has learned he will be. The handler's rule is to keep walking and stay neutral so the flop does not work. At the next in-program owner lesson (22 Sep) two more exits are named. Asked for a down, Chunk offers a sit; the trainer tells the owner not to release it with 'okay', because Chunk would learn a pattern of getting out of the down by sitting. And when an owner marks him with no command in force, Chunk drops into a command 'in hopes that you'd just be like okay we're cool' - so the trainer tells the owner to give 'let's go' first and correct only if that is ignored.
On film
like that needed to get fixed because he was doing the thing where he like avoids by going down and then if i keep walking he'll like fish out of water
So, like, you'll tell him to do something, and he's, like, just starts walking away from you.
Or he would do this thing where he'd, like, go into a down and just, like, watch me and be like, is he going to make me do anything?
i would say next time don't say okay because what he learns is like this is like a pattern i can build where i can like get out of it by sitting and so like you reinforce them to be a punk
in this case he wasn't like there was no command that he was under and so when you said and he was like i don't know so he just went into a command right there in hopes that you'd just be like okay we're cool
Dolce
Dolce's exit is a command she knows well: she associates place with safety, so when the heel gets uncomfortable she takes herself to her bed. The coaching session reads her as trying things rather than panicking, and the answer is not more pressure but a smaller ask - just being next to the handler counts - with a tug game to bring her mood back before going again.
On film
I think at the same time too, she associates the place with safety
She's kind of like to the place where I'll just stop it. Right. Or she's just kind of like going away.
Like if you're next to me, you're good. You're good, yeah, everything's good.
Stormie
Stormie would not down for the handler who had been working her.
On film
Well, what I was trying to do here, I was trying to pressure her into it, so I was going to press it and pull it down.
And then just don't let the sit happen?
Good girl! Yes, yes, yes!
Zeus
With Zeus the idea appears as subtraction. On an early walk the trainer takes a bone away rather than stage a possession fight with a huge dog and no gear, making it not an option; later he describes having made jumping on another dog a non-option.
On film
doing it with a large item like that so that's why i kind of had went ahead and nipped that in the bud and made it not a not an option for him to have it
usually runs right up to him okay and tries to jump on him yeah well because i i made that a non-option like not a fun thing for him
Dutchess
Dutchess answers collar pressure by leaving. Her trainer says plainly that this is not pain but a learned way out, that she is further along that train of thought than most dogs, and that the fix holds two constraints at once: gentler, so the collar does not become frightening, and clearer, so the way back into the command is obvious.
On film
of has a tendency where she'll just kind of try to blow me off or run away from the e-collar pressure, right?
with it. So, nothing wrong with that. We just have to make sure that number one, I don't make her scared of the e-collar, so I got to be a little more gentle. And number two, make it really clear.
sometimes dogs even if you have the level set really low what will happen is your e-collar the dog feels the pressure but does not know what to do with that info
Drago
Drago shows how an exit gets learned. Once, on a long line the trainer did not grab, he escaped the pressure by running to the truck, and afterwards answered come by heading for the truck whenever it was near.
On film
But he learned one thing that was a mistake on my part that I did not want him to learn.
Mazi
Mazi, a Rottweiler, offers submission instead of the down, in hopes of not having to do it.
On film
So what she was doing there, or what he was doing there, she kept trying to like submit in hopes.
and uh she had a tendency to submit in hopes that she wouldn't have to do the command of course when she went home she did it but i told him i was like it's something you want to watch out for
Penny
Penny has two coping habits: downing when she is in trouble in the heel, and, on a long line, running back to the truck instead of recalling. Kelton tells her owners that erasing habits like these is part of the proofing phase, so that the only safe thing is to do what she was asked; for the truck he raised the collar so running there made it worse. In a separate session he explains why the leash stays on until the recall is proven: a dog who reaches the car gets relief.
On film
that because she knows down gets her out of trouble but not in the heel right
safety purposes you want her to think that the only thing that's safe is to do the thing you asked her to do
truck this is why you don't take the leash off too early they take off they get to the truck and then you stop using the stem
Piglet
Piglet, an American bully, tests whether she can avoid a command she already knows with a slow, sad-looking crawl the trainer calls the avoidance waddle. He reads it as avoidance, not fear, and penalises it only when she blows off a command while otherwise giving her lots of freedom. The same trainer's closing assessment a few days earlier says she suppressed more than he expected across the program, so the file carries both readings. Kelton settled it on 23 Sep: avoidance.
On film
come come here let's go pig come on come and then they'll kind of do this suppressed sad looking thing it's okay they're not scared
she avoids commands right if she blows off a command i ask her to give i'm gonna um i'm gonna penalize that
on her emotional state more um she she suppressed a lot more than i thought she would um throughout her program
Rocky
Rocky knows the down but squirms toward the handler, shoves between legs and lies on his stomach - appeasement behaviour the trainer calls typical of shepherd types. At the go-home lesson he warns the owner that if it ever works the dog will milk it, then shows the fix: two taut lines, or a back-tie at home, so Rocky cannot come in and the down is the only way out. He downs within a few repetitions.
On film
he's supposed to be doing um so just make sure it doesn't work ever okay because if you like go soft on that and go oh oh and like feel bad for him he'll milk it
right like because he's like he's quick with it so we're making the appeasement behavior impossible
Whiskey
Whiskey refuses the down, gets up and circles. The trainer explains this without blame - these are pathways that have got her out of pressure before, and the trainer would try them too - and frames the job as showing her they now lead nowhere. The last down of the session comes on the verbal alone.
On film
seeing if if there's an alternative to actually going into the position um seeing if like you know just like refusing to do it
mean that like as the trainer i don't have to you know help her to see that hey like those pathways go they lead nowhere they don't work at all right
Boog
Boog (new in this update). At the go-home lesson, during the heel, Boog tests the trainer in front of his owners - 'that wrestling stuff', which the trainer warns the owners he will try on them too. The trainer physically puts him into a sit and Boog goes into a down instead; the trainer accepts it ('i really didn't care'), because what he needed was for the test to end with Boog giving in, not a particular position. He tells the owners he would not put this kind of moment online from a session on his own, and that Boog is testing because they are there. The down, he says later, is the one command Boog fought him on to the end.
On film
so this is the kind of stuff that you have to do with him though is that like that wrestling stuff so like every now and then he'll try to test me he's gonna do the same thing with you
all right boog hey sit sit okay so i that was a down i really didn't care i just needed
i really promise like because you guys are around he is like kind of trying to test it
Yeah, for the most part, that was the one command that he liked to fight me even until the end.
Major
Major's owner stopped using the prong after he freaked out at her correction over a weekend and she thought she was hurting him. His trainer reads it as acting out to get away from the correction, and at the evaluation gives the answer for next time: if he pulls and cries to get away, say 'nope' and leash-pop, because that is him trying to get away from the discipline. The same conversation checks a physical cause too - the prong's links may have caught his hair.
On film
that was good that was a good correction on mom's part yesterday she was um she was reluctant about
using the prong collar and it's because um she went to correct him over the weekend and he freaked out and she thought she she was hurting him but what he was really doing is not wanting to accept a correction
yeah the more he cried so if he were to try to do that again you say nope and you leash pop yeah because that's him trying to get away from the discipline
yeah you say nope leash pop and he keeps doing it nope leash pop he gets the haircut cut because i think that some of the links grabbed his hair
Why it works
As the trainers explain it: a dog under pressure looks for whatever turned the pressure off before, and tries it (Whiskey, Dutchess, Penny's truck). If the alternative works even once it becomes the dog's solution and is repeated (Drago's truck; Rocky's trainer: if you go soft he will milk it and it will destroy the training). While the exit works, the correction teaches nothing, because the dog has a way out that is not the command (Dutchess: we're teaching her that it's not really a viable option). Removing the exit - physically with a held line, two lines or a back-tie, or by making it not pay - leaves the asked-for behaviour as the only way the pressure ends, and the trainers report the position arriving quickly once that is true (Stormie, Rocky, Bullet). Kodak's trainer adds that a last-ditch escape attempt after things had smoothed out is an extinction burst, and that quitting there teaches the dog that the attempt works.
Inferred rather than stated: the trainers never say in one place that the answer is to close the exit rather than raise the pressure; that is the pattern across the Stormie, Rocky, Bullet and Dolce files, and the map's framing of it. Penny's truck and Kodak's burst show pressure being added as well, so the record does not support 'never more pressure', only 'not more pressure alone'. Chunk's trainer states the installing step directly: release an offered sit in place of a down and the dog learns 'a pattern i can build where i can like get out of it by sitting' (watch 10:26). He adds a second source of exits - a marker given when no command is in force leaves the dog guessing, so he offers a command to make peace (40:52).
On film
things work you know which i don't blame her for trying them right because if those things immediately get her out of pressure
soft on that and go oh oh and like feel bad for him he'll milk it he'll milk it and he'll do it forever and then like it'll destroy the training
pressure is hurting her, but her reaction to it is that I can get out of it if I run away.
and it's important that you don't give up at that point or think that you're hurting him
away from you and run to the truck and they get to safety so to speak in their mind the pressure turns off
i would say next time don't say okay because what he learns is like this is like a pattern i can build where i can like get out of it by sitting and so like you reinforce them to be a punk
in this case he wasn't like there was no command that he was under and so when you said and he was like i don't know so he just went into a command right there in hopes that you'd just be like okay we're cool
Common owner mistakes
- Going soft and feeling sorry for the dog when he offers appeasement, which teaches him that it works.
On film
he's supposed to be doing um so just make sure it doesn't work ever okay because if you like go soft on that and go oh oh and like feel bad for him he'll milk it
Watch at 3:18 ↗ - Counting the dog coming to you, or going to his bed, as obeying when you asked for something else.
On film
he wants to get off and get away is to try to get off and get away or get off and come to me or something like that.
Watch at 20:55 ↗ I think at the same time too, she associates the place with safety
Watch at 6:15 ↗ i would say next time don't say okay because what he learns is like this is like a pattern i can build where i can like get out of it by sitting and so like you reinforce them to be a punk
Watch at 10:26 ↗ - Taking the leash off before the recall is proven, so a stressed dog can bolt to the car and find relief there.
On film
truck this is why you don't take the leash off too early they take off they get to the truck and then you stop using the stem
Watch at 17:54 ↗ - Giving up when the dog tries a last escape after things had improved, or reading it as damage.
On film
and it's important that you don't give up at that point or think that you're hurting him
Watch at 22:21 ↗
Questions owners ask
My dog lies down or rolls over when I correct him. Is he scared?
The trainers read this, in several dogs, as a tested option rather than fear: Kodak's trainer tells him he knows the option he is taking, and Piglet's trainer says of the same sad-looking crawl that the dog is not scared. They also stay alert to the other reading - Piglet's own file records more suppression than her trainer expected - though for Piglet Kelton has ruled that avoidance is the right reading. The honest answer is that it is usually a strategy, and that telling which one it is belongs to the handler watching the dog.
On film
I know your option that you're taking there is just to lay down and see if i let you do it
come come here let's go pig come on come and then they'll kind of do this suppressed sad looking thing it's okay they're not scared
i would say next time don't say okay because what he learns is like this is like a pattern i can build where i can like get out of it by sitting and so like you reinforce them to be a punk
He comes and sits on me instead of downing. Isn't that good?
Not if you asked for a down. Bullet's trainer calls climbing onto the person the same escape as getting off and leaving, and fixed it by having a helper hold the line still so Bullet could not come in.
On film
he wants to get off and get away is to try to get off and get away or get off and come to me or something like that.
My dog runs away from the e-collar. Does that mean it hurts?
Dutchess's trainer says no - her reaction is that she can get out of it by running, and the job is to show her that is not a way out, while being gentler so she does not become frightened of the collar and clearer so she can find the right answer.
On film
the e-collar pressure, right? Um It does not mean that the e-collar pressure is hurting her
How do I stop the squirming and rolling over at home?
Rocky's trainer tells the owner to back-tie him - a line from his collar tied to something fixed - and ask for the down, so he cannot come to her and the down is the only way out. And never let the squirming work.
On film
tie it around something okay just back it's called back tying at the carport
The lesson
The goal
Recognise the exit a dog uses instead of the command, and close it so the command becomes the only way the pressure ends.
Learn first
- Pressure, release, reward
- Help it or press it - read which
- Eating the correction, and avoidance as a tactic
The drill
As run for Rocky: two people each hold a line to the dog's collar from opposite sides and keep both taut so he cannot approach either of them; ask for the down; release with 'okay' the moment he downs. At home the second line is replaced by a back-tie to a fixed point. As run for Bullet: a helper holds the long line dead still - no sliding, no words - while the handler cues sit or down from a distance.
Watch out for
- Letting the appeasement or the escape work even once.
- Counting the dog coming to you as compliance.
- Raising pressure while the exit is still open.
- Quitting at the extinction burst.
Check yourself
When you insist, what does your dog do instead - and does that thing still end the pressure for him?