The answer
Not because food doesn't work. Nobody on film says that, and one trainer says the opposite ('a pepperoni and I could teach a dog to down'). The objection comes on three grounds, and owners tend to hear them as one.
The first is reliability. At Dutchess's go-home the trainer says the business 'used to use treats a lot more'. Treats are 'the most reliable if you have the treat or if the dog doesn't want something more than the treat', and 'insanely unreliable if the dog even slightly cares about something more'. So they fail exactly where obedience matters. Zeus's trainer says the same from the other side: reward on its own 'falls flat … it fails when there's higher distractions'. Underneath is a model of disobedience as a price comparison the dog runs: 'do I want to do this or is there something I want to do more?' (Connor, Deuce). The criterion three different lessons borrow from a course is that 'the reward for them listening to you is greater than their reward for not listening' (Luna, Dutchess, Deuce).
The second is relational, and it is the one the trainers get animated about. A treat-trained dog stops looking at the person and starts looking for the food. Kodak's trainer: 'they're not even looking at me yeah they're just looking for the food yeah i don't like that'. Kelton to Bandit's owner: like a friend who only ever asks to borrow cash, 'It starts becoming not a friendship … It's like a bank.' Kelton to Lola's family: 'it makes it transactional, it's like a bank', a dog sitting and staring at you instead of off sniffing the bushes and being a dog. Doja's trainer tried two weeks without food and liked 'the dog's vibe better when I'm not, like, pez dispensering the treats'. At Cabela's, treats 'bring out the wrong energy' in a store (Poseidon). Kelton gives Beo's owner the same picture in September 2026: the dog is looking for food, and he doesn't like feeling 'like a pez dispenser to the dog'.
The third is the handover. Roxy's trainer runs a treat trial on camera, says 'that's enough treats', and explains the fear: she goes home, knows the command, and waits, 'where's my food? I need to see my food first'. Stormie's home lesson gives the same failure in the dog's voice: 'you told me to sit but i don't see a treat'. At Beo's first owner lesson the owner describes it from his own earlier training, and Kelton names the owner's side of the problem: treats have to be faded onto a variable reinforcement schedule, which he finds harder for people to do than other reward types (speaker turns in that passage are inferred from content).
What replaces food: release to freedom, sniffing, play, affection and a toy whose excitement is built up to outrank the distraction and paid out unpredictably ('not like every other time'). Stormie's trainer says why some reward matters: 'you really can't train without some kind of reward … we're balanced.'
Angus 'does really good with treats', so food became more of his training. Cosmo got a lure 'for certain dogs'. Neo's later handler calls food luring 'my preferred way'. Akira's heel was paid in 'mindless food reps'. Kelton set the house position on 23 Sep 2026: play first, food case by case. Playing with food is different from just giving food as a reward every time, treat chasing can be excellent if done correctly, and food lures have a place and can be used when necessary. One handler gives a treat 'once every five' commands and says 'that's just me'. The existing page's older claim, that food can't override anxiety or create calm, has thinner support in these files - its clearest backing is Peque's refresher, where the trainer says shovelling treats into a reactive dog's mouth 'accomplishes nothing', because the dog's problem is the action, not an emotion food can fix. The same pass adds two plain cases of the handover and reliability failures: Maverick, trained entirely on treats, withholds a sit he knows ('you're not doing it because I don't have a treat'), and Egg, lured with treats, does not care and growls for the treat. Murphy's trainer says a held down can 'induce calm behavior' though it isn't calm in itself, and the no-treats-in-stores reasoning is about energy.
Angier K9 is a family-owned, play-based Board & Train serving Angier, Raleigh and the Triangle, with three full owner lessons.
What to do
Pay your dog in what he actually wants in the moment: freedom ('okay', go sniff), play, your attention. Keep food, if you use it, out of sight until after the command, and use it rarely and unpredictably. Build a toy up until it outranks distractions. The test is whether the reward for listening beats the reward for not listening (Luna, watch 15:52).
What the trainers say
so we used to use treats a lot more we don't use them anymore because they're the most reliable if you have the treat or if the dog doesn't want something more than the treat right but they're like it becomes insanely unreliable if the dog even slightly cares about something more than the treat
we had a treat right that well right which then she's working for the treat not obedience
a lot and it was this is the reward for not listening greater than the reward for listening
was taking a while back and and he said uh make sure that all of your commands the reward for them listening to you is greater than their reward for not listening
psychology of a dog's brain. Their brain usually works with like as far as commands go okay command, do I want to do this or is there something I want to do more?
in that scenario and very often positive reinforcement on its own just rewarding them for doing the right thing falls flat right it doesn't work it fails when there's higher distractions
gross and i don't like that look that i see on a dog's face when you turn up treats and they come up to you and you're like hey like kodak and they're like yeah and they're just like they're not even looking at me yeah they're just looking for the food
but like play that's goaded right because then you're doing it with them right it's organic and like it's a relationship-based thing you guys are having fun
It starts becoming not a friendship and more symbiosis. It's like a bank.
Turns out that what it does, it makes it transactional, it's like a bank, like I'm like a bank and
at me, ew, because that's not your picture in your head when you're out at the beach,
And I found that I actually like the dog's vibe better when I'm not, like, pez dispensering the treats.
reinforcement in these kinds of contexts I found that treats kind of bring out the wrong energy in the dog a lot of times
Eh. Roxy. I didn't need to use the e-cog. Down. Good girl. Oh, good girl. I think that's enough treats. Treats can be a good thing, but treats can also be a bad thing.
Like, if there's one time I give her a treat, and let's say she goes back to her owners and then she just doesn't do it and she just looks at you, but she knows it, she's like, well, where's my food? I need to see my food first.
we don't use treats because treats can be one of those things where the dog is like oh you told me to sit but i don't see a treat
because you really can't train without some kind of reward right so we do use like negative reinforcement which is a lot of pressure but the dogs really aren't going to enjoy themselves if it's all pressure and nothing positive
up and he was like oh you know so whatever it is think about it your dog in terms of cooperation
confrontational and transactional okay right so an example of confrontational
So we try to get the dog to be as excited about the toy as possible because the higher level
tug every now and then just make sure like it's not predictable it's not like every other time
i don't remember but he reacted to my words instead of the treat he's off so but i only do this like once every five times
Angus does really good with treats. So I'm using treats for more and more of Angus's training
so one variable is that i found it's harder for owners to train with treats why because of the problem you just pointed out which is if you train with treats you have to fade the treats out um and then you have to go on what's called a variable reinforcement schedule um and it's a lot more um i found difficult for people to do um than other reward types
another reason that i don't like it very much is i feel it creates a strange relationship and interaction style with the dog for me
am i a bank right and so i don't like thinking like oh like i'm like a pez dispenser to the dog right
I've tried luring him with treats and all these other things. Um, but he, he doesn't, he doesn't care.
I know you know it, and you're not doing it because I don't have a treat.
both of those things don't make any sense the shoveling treats in the the watch watch watch watch watch accomplishes nothing
How it looks, dog by dog
Dutchess
The fullest statement of the reliability argument, given to a family whose intake form named food as one of her two motivators. The trainer volunteers that the business used to use treats a lot more. He explains why they stopped: treats are reliable only while nothing outranks them, and a dog out of treats says 'that's funny … i don't see a treat in your hand'. At a lesson he adds the borrowed criterion: is the reward for not listening greater than the reward for listening?
On film
so we used to use treats a lot more we don't use them anymore
and dutch is like that's funny because like i don't see a treat in your hand so that means like
a lot and it was this is the reward for not listening greater than the reward
Kodak
The relational argument, in the shared owner lesson. The trainer likens treat training to a friend who only ever asks for ten bucks, and dislikes 'that look' of a dog looking past the person for the food. Play is 'organic' and 'relationship-based' by contrast. The owners' own report fits it: Kodak, trained on treats, walks past his dinner to the fridge where the bacon is.
On film
so we don't like to do it it's kind of like um like like if you had a friend that like like say
they're not even looking at me yeah they're just looking for the food yeah i don't like that um
Rocko
The dissent, and the safe way to do it (Rocko's session, filed with Kodak's household). A different handler says visible food becomes the cue ('when i see treats i sit'), so he hides it until the dog answers the word. He gives a treat about one command in five, and says twice it is his own practice: 'that's just me … a lot of trainers i know they don't do that'.
On film
Let's say the trainer has a treat in front of them before he even says, like, sit.
this like once every five times i'll train a dog like five commands in i'll give him a treat so
Stormie
The policy with its reason, at the home lesson. Connor says they don't use treats because a treat-trained dog checks for one before complying. In the same breath he says you can't train without some reward, and the program is 'balanced', not all pressure.
On film
we don't use treats because treats can be one of those things where the dog is like oh you told me to sit but i don't see a treat
because you really can't train without some kind of reward right
Roxy
The experiment run on camera. At one session the trainer tries treats for a few minutes, finds they work, and stops: 'that's enough treats'. His worry is the handover, a dog who knows the command and waits at home to see the food first. Asked about a clicker in a lesson, he says they use verbal markers and don't carry food 'because it's inconvenient'.
On film
Like, if there's one time I give her a treat, and let's say she goes back to her owners
which is important yeah is this like that clicker you have no that's just a straight mechanical clicker I never use them because we just use verbal markers
Lola
The relational argument to a family, with the replacement. Kelton recalls telling clients to carry a treat pouch everywhere, and says it made the relationship 'like a bank'. The dog sits staring at you instead of going to the bushes and being a dog, which is not the picture any owner has of a day at the beach.
On film
gotta get a treat box you gotta fill it up with tasty treats and you gotta carry
go snuck the bushes, you're not being a dog, that's creepy, why are you just sitting there looking at me,
it's also if i beat you every time like every time without even it's like no contest right
Bandit
The borrowing-cash analogy, from Kelton to an owner whose dog sat only for food. He has barely used treats in two months of videos, because food 'creates like a weird relationship': every time the dog sees you, he wants money. The replacement rewards are praise, play and above all freedom.
On film
One, I found it creates like a weird relationship
i see you the only thing that you like want is like for me to give you money right and i feel
Deuce
The economics, taught as theory. Connor describes disobedience as the dog's calculation, with a worked example: fifty cents against five million dollars to be punched. The criterion is borrowed from a colleague's course. So the toy's excitement is built up until it outranks the distraction, and the tug comes out at random, 'not like every other time'.
On film
thing more than the punishment? So like I'm just kind of going to break it,
i'd like to get him a little more like jumpy with the with the tug of course the tug comes out at random times
Zeus
A claim about a condition, not a dismissal. Commands have to be practised when the dog is amped and distracted, because reward alone 'falls flat' there: he has never been reinforced either way in that state. At a later lesson the trainer concedes food could teach the down.
On film
not just in a calm room where you're just sitting there doing nothing, they need to
in that scenario and very often positive reinforcement on its own just rewarding them
Luna
The borrowed criterion again, almost word for word, in a different trainer's lesson: make sure the reward for listening is greater than the reward for not listening.
On film
was taking a while back and and he said uh make sure that all of your commands
Doja
A trainer's own two-week experiment. He has no food pouch on him. It is not that he dislikes rewarding dogs, he says, but that over the past two weeks he found he liked the dogs' 'vibe' better without dispensing treats, using negative reinforcement with a release on top.
On film
like i don't have a food pouch on me right now actually um and it's not because i don't like
And I found that I actually like the dog's vibe better when I'm not, like,
Poseidon
No treats in stores. On a Cabela's trip the trainer says they use negative reinforcement in public because treats 'bring out the wrong energy' and he doesn't want 'a treat hound' who does what he wants when the treats run out. Food, if any, goes on a variable schedule.
On film
that want to bring to like a store setting so I'm not trying to get him all
Josephine
Cooperation, not transaction. At the go-home the trainer tells the owner to think of her dog in terms of cooperation, releasing her to things she likes (a pole to mark, squirrels to watch), rather than depositing a cookie for each behaviour.
On film
operation. Right. So instead of thinking of it like a transactionally where it's like, okay,
Oscar
The walk framed as fun with a buddy, not a compliance audit where every act is paid or punished: 'that's very transactional … instead I like to think of it in terms of like alright I'm gonna go have fun with my buddy'.
On film
wrong thing he gets this that's very transactional yes instead I like to
Murphy
The original claim, stated narrowly. A down is stationary, not calm. Held long enough it 'will create, it'll induce calm behavior', but it isn't calm to begin with. It is the nearest the current files come to the existing page's point that food and commands don't create calm on their own.
On film
enough, it will create, it'll induce calm behavior, but it in itself isn't calm behavior to begin
Finn
The reliability claim happening. In a hardware store a stranger offers Finn a treat, and he isn't interested: 'if you don't want it, you don't want it'.
On film
Uh, he doesn't care much about the treat. Really? Finn, say hi.
Angus
The exception, stated honestly. Angus learns badly under pressure and well with food, so food becomes more and more of his training. The trainer names the cost: he feels 'a little awkward' about it and dislikes how it changes what the dog watches.
On film
because he tends to do better with the treats
have been working him some with food which since I don't use food all the
Cosmo
A lure for a spazzy puppy. A trainer who almost never lures does it with Cosmo, says 'there's a way to do it that could be more efficient for certain dogs', and withdraws it within days.
On film
in several sets but just goes to show you that sometimes you know there's a way to do it that
Neo
A handler's preference running the other way: 'Food luring these days has kind of become my preferred way to teach them.' Neo's arc sets it beside the house's usual avoidance of treats for the down.
On film
Food luring these days has kind of become
Akira
A block of heel paid rep by rep: 'just doing some mindless food reps'. Akira's arc records it because it sits against the lead trainer's account of how little food she was trained with.
On film
Akira, heel, just doing some mindless food reps.
Beo
A three-year-old hound-type dog whose owner had trained him with treats before the program. At the first owner lesson (Kelton, 24 Sep 2026) the owner describes the result - rep after rep paid in food, and once there was no treat, no response - and Kelton answers with two of this page's three grounds. The handover: treats must be faded onto a variable reinforcement schedule, which he finds harder for owners than other rewards. The relationship: a dog who comes because he is looking for food makes the trainer 'a pez dispenser', like a friend who only ever asks to borrow money. He says there is nothing wrong with treats and that he has trained with them, and the replacement he demonstrates minutes later is Beo's own currency - release to freedom - which 'doesn't require you to carry anything extra'. Speaker turns are not marked in this recording; who says what in 12:36-12:58 is inferred from content.
On film
on a lot of my previous trainings with him on my own when i do this it's a lot of like like over and over again over and over treat treat treat and then once there's no reward of treat there's none of that kind of it's like oh i'm not getting anything for this yeah and then he's just like oh i'm not gonna do it then if i'm not gonna get treated
so one variable is that i found it's harder for owners to train with treats why because of the problem you just pointed out which is if you train with treats you have to fade the treats out um and then you have to go on what's called a variable reinforcement schedule um and it's a lot more um i found difficult for people to do um than other reward types
Because like, why are they doing it? They're looking for food.
am i a bank right and so i don't like thinking like oh like i'm like a pez dispenser to the dog right
so that's an easy way to positively reinforce right and it doesn't require you to carry anything extra
Egg
Egg is the reliability argument at its bluntest. His trainer has tried luring him with treats and other things, and Egg does not care; when the trainer lures with a treat, Egg growls at him for it. Growling to get what he wants, or to refuse, is the pattern the trainer is teaching him is not an option.
On film
I've tried luring him with treats and all these other things. Um, but he, he doesn't, he doesn't care.
You can see when I went to lure him with the treat there, he growled at me cause he was like, give me the treat.
Maverick
Maverick shows the handover failure in a young dog: trained entirely on treats before he came in, he knows his sit and withholds it when no treat is showing. The trainer says so to him directly, then gets the sit without food.
On film
I will say, this guy has been claimed entirely on treats.
I know you know it, and you're not doing it because I don't have a treat.
Peque (PK)
During Peque's refresher program the trainer takes on the calming use of food directly. Shovelling treats into a reactive dog's mouth while saying 'watch, watch' accomplishes nothing: it tries to be counter-conditioning, but the dog's problem is not an emotional issue - the dog can feel however she wants, but she must not do the lunging. The trainer is just as critical of the opposite extreme, punishing a dog for looking at other dogs.
On film
they'll just they'll just like shovel treats into their mouth to distract them
both of those things don't make any sense the shoveling treats in the the watch watch watch watch watch accomplishes nothing
they're trying to do positive counter-conditioning but the problem the dog has isn't an emotional issue with dogs
Why it works
Stated, in three parts. Reliability: a food reward holds only while nothing in the environment outranks it (Dutchess watch 01:43), and reward-only training has never reinforced the dog either way in the high-distraction state where it is needed (Zeus watch 07:30). The dog runs a comparison, and the reward for listening has to beat the reward for not listening (Deuce watch 15:46; Luna watch 15:52; Dutchess watch 25:44). Cueing: visible food becomes the cue, so the dog answers the treat and not the word (Rocko watch 08:20; see hidden-help). Relationship: the dog attends to the dispenser, not the person, which the trainers experience as a transaction (Kodak watch 85:42; Bandit watch 12:56; Lola watch 48:49). The replacement rewards (freedom, sniffing, play, affection) are things the dog is already seeking in the environment. They are available wherever the dog is, and a toy's value can be built up and delivered unpredictably (Deuce watch 15:07; watch 27:08). Inferred, not stated: part of the case is practical. Families will not carry food, and a short program cannot fade it (Josephine's arc; Roxy watch 07:30).
Where the trainers differ
Does the page still answer its old question?
One view
The existing page: food facilitates a calm the dog already has and cannot override anxiety.
On film
enough, it will create, it'll induce calm behavior, but it in itself isn't calm behavior to begin
they're trying to do positive counter-conditioning but the problem the dog has isn't an emotional issue with dogs
How to read it
Coverage pass (1 Oct): Peque's refresher adds direct support for side A.
Common owner mistakes
- Showing the treat before the command, so the treat becomes the cue.
On film
Let's say the trainer has a treat in front of them before he even says, like, sit.
Rocko · Watch at 8:20 ↗ - Paying every rep in food, so the dog is working for the treat, not the command.
On film
we had a treat right that well right which then she's working for the treat not obedience
Dutchess · Watch at 1:38 ↗ - Relying on food outdoors, where something always outranks it.
On film
in that scenario and very often positive reinforcement on its own just rewarding them for doing the right thing falls flat
Zeus · Watch at 7:48 ↗ - Using the tug on a fixed schedule the dog can predict.
On film
tug every now and then just make sure like it's not predictable it's not like every other time
Deuce · Watch at 27:08 ↗
Questions owners ask
Does this trainer think treats don't work?
No. They work while you have one and nothing matters more to the dog. That is exactly the problem: they become 'insanely unreliable if the dog even slightly cares about something more than the treat'. A trainer on film concedes food could teach a down; the objection is what it teaches and what it costs later. Kelton says as much to Beo's owner: there is nothing wrong with treats, but fading them onto a variable schedule is harder for owners than other rewards.
On film
so we used to use treats a lot more we don't use them anymore because they're the most reliable if you have the treat
so one variable is that i found it's harder for owners to train with treats why because of the problem you just pointed out which is if you train with treats you have to fade the treats out um and then you have to go on what's called a variable reinforcement schedule um and it's a lot more um i found difficult for people to do um than other reward types
Then what do you reward with?
Freedom, meaning the release to go sniff, greet or explore, plus play and affection. A toy is built up until it outranks the distractions and brought out unpredictably. Stormie's trainer: you can't train without some reward, and the program is balanced, not all pressure.
On film
because you really can't train without some kind of reward right
So we try to get the dog to be as excited about the toy as possible because the higher level
My dog only listens for food. What happened?
He has learned to check your hand before deciding. Dutchess's trainer, in the dog's voice: 'that's funny because like i don't see a treat in your hand'. The fix on film is to hide food until after the command, or drop it, and make the reward for listening bigger than the reward for not listening.
On film
and dutch is like that's funny because like i don't see a treat in your hand so that means like
was taking a while back and and he said uh make sure that all of your commands
Will you ever use food with my dog?
Possibly. On film, food is used for a dog who learns badly under pressure (Angus), as a lure for a very excitable puppy (Cosmo), for a position (Neo), and as an occasional top-up with the treat hidden until after the word (Rocko's handler). Kelton's house position (23 Sep 2026): play first, food case by case; treat chasing and lures have their place when necessary. The trainers say so when they do it.
On film
Angus does really good with treats. So I'm using treats for more and more of Angus's training
in several sets but just goes to show you that sometimes you know there's a way to do it that
Will treats calm my anxious dog?
The current files say little about this directly. Murphy's trainer says a held down is not calm in itself but can induce calm over time. The anti-treat arguments here are about reliability, relationship and handover, not anxiety. Peque's trainer is direct about the common version for reactive dogs - shovelling treats while saying 'watch' accomplishes nothing, because the dog's problem is the action, not an emotion.
On film
enough, it will create, it'll induce calm behavior, but it in itself isn't calm behavior to begin
both of those things don't make any sense the shoveling treats in the the watch watch watch watch watch accomplishes nothing
The lesson
The goal
Make the reward for listening outrank the reward for not listening without making the dog a food-checker.
Learn first
- Play becomes the reward - and play is a contest
- You have to be able to reward him at all
- Meaningful release
See it done
- Roxy: A treat trial, and why it was stopped. Watch at 12:14 ↗
- Rocko: Food hidden until the dog answers the word. Watch at 8:20 ↗
- Deuce: The tug brought out unpredictably. Watch at 27:08 ↗
The drill
As taught to Deuce's and Dutchess's families. List what your dog wants most in a given place (sniffing, greeting, the ball, you). Ask for the command first. Pay with release to one of those things ('okay, go sniff') or a burst of play, at unpredictable times, not every rep and not every other rep. Build the toy up through games until it competes with distractions. If you use food, keep it out of sight until after he responds, and use it rarely.
Watch out for
- Food in view before the command.
- Every rep paid.
- A predictable reward schedule.
- Food as the only reward, used where something outranks it.
- No reward at all: 'all pressure and nothing positive'.
Check yourself
Outside, with a squirrel in view, what reward do you have that beats the squirrel?