The answer
The trainers treat this as the first problem of a fearful case. Finn's trainer calls it his challenge with Finn: "getting him opened enough with me to properly, like, reward him." Finn froze when the trainer tried to play. He would not take food. Ball and tug did not land.
The answer on film is to change the dog's body. "I'm just going to go straight physiological and just start running, and you have to run with me because I have a leash." A moderate jog, the trainer says, "releases a bunch of happy stuff in your brain." Then he attaches the things Finn cannot yet take (a touch, a moment of play) to the run, and puts the run at the end of an obedience rep, so obedience buys it. That, he says, "enables me to make it harder and use negative reinforcement without huge fallout." Kodak's trainer does the same on Kodak's first public walk: a jog straight after the release word, which both lowers stress and "can increase the value of that marker." Bullet's handler, when the ball fails: "He likes to run so As long as I can reward him somehow."
The reward that seems obvious can be the problem. Kodak's trainer rejects the idea that comforting a scared dog 'rewards the fear' ("that is bull shark... it's false"), and gives a different reason not to do it. For a dog who does not trust you yet, praise and touch are "actually an aversive": they are what he wants to get away from. He admits he still has to stop himself reaching out. Lola's trainer declines to pet her on day one for the same reason: "if they're terrified and don't like the pet, the pet goes from a reward" to something else. Anna's handler stays kind but stops petting and talking so Anna learns to face the new mat on her own. Jack's trainer makes himself neutral: talk that is not aimed at the dog, no petting, whole walks nearly silent.
It depends on the dog, and it changes. Finn's trainer at a later lesson says petting can be "a really good reinforcement" for one nervous dog and not another. Lola's trainer, weeks in, says that if cuddling is the only thing that opens her up, he will sit with her for two hours. For Josi the currency is people and petting. For Bo, who loves contact, the trainer puts jumping up on cue so the cue itself becomes a reward. For Rocky it is the chance to sniff, and the recall is paid by sending him back out. And Kodak, for whom play would have been "panic inducing" on his first walk, turns out a few weeks later to love the ball. His trainer's lesson: "Don't just assume that... they're kind of nervous so they won't do it... They might do it."
What is inferred: the claim that exercise changes the dog's emotional state is the trainers' physiological explanation, cited by one of them to a paper; the film shows dogs who start running eagerly and work harder afterwards, not the chemistry.
A wider reading of every session note tagged with this idea found it at ten more dogs, and they widen it beyond the frightened dog. Callie is 'not very treat motivated or toy motivated', and what she enjoys turns out to be petting and being out in nature. Major refuses treats on his first walk and takes petting. Milo's trainer finds that contact with people beats any treat he has tried, and trains with that while play is still being built. Penny will not tug one day, so the reward becomes food and the work goes on. Levi's trainer states it as a rule: give the dog a reason to comply, or the response slows, and pick 'rewards that are individualistic to each dog' - for Levi, sniffing and a good rub. For Irwin the first rung is just taking treats and engaging a little, as the place to work up from.
Angier K9 is a family-owned, play-based Board & Train serving Angier, Raleigh and the Triangle, with three full owner lessons.
What to do
Find one thing your dog will actually work for before asking much of him, and make sure it is something you can produce on demand. If he refuses food and toys, try a jog together on the leash, or freedom to sniff, and keep offering the toys, because nervous dogs can surprise you. If he shrinks from your hand, stop petting and loud praise for now and stay quietly kind.
What the trainers say
I'm like, all right, well, you know what can change an emotional state that you don't really have that much control over, hopefully, is I'm just going to go straight physiological and just start running, and you have to run with me because I have a leash.
he's interested in that but that's the that's the the highest the highest level that'll start them up the fastest but it's not really i haven't been able to get it where it's something that's totally under my control circumstantially so it's less useful for the training
i'm tagging things with those happy chemicals by doing personal play a little bit and then running right and so tagging those two things together
attaching that as the end of obedience right i ask him to do something and then boom he gets that
it's also a very strong positive reinforcer on the back of the the okay command for him so it can increase it can increase the value of that marker you can charge it up
it doesn't make sense behaviorally because it's actually an aversive right so the the definition of something that's aversive is something that you know like it is it is punishing to you right it makes you want to to get away from that thing
even me as a professional dog trainer who has spent a lot of time and effort learning how and rehabilitating dogs like this, I I had a strong temptation to reach out and touch him and praise him. And yet, that would have been strongly counterproductive.
This is why you should always take some stuff with you and try it, right? Because it can totally change your approach. Try tug, try ball, try stuff.
Now I'm not going to touch her because, um, you know, sometimes people think, oh, that's a nervous dog, you'll make her feel better. The thing is, if they're terrified and don't like the pet, the pet goes from a reward to actively either negatively reinforcing or turns into a positive point of view because you're adding in the pets, right?
if she can't open up around me, I can't teach her to open her up. I cannot teach her to open up around other people, which could be a real problem.
somebody was like is petting a dog a punishment or a reinforcement and the answer is like depends on the dog neither it just depends it could either be like a really good reinforcement like right now i'm training a golden retriever who's nervous the first time i met him he ran away and as he was running i like brushed his chin and he like ran and he stopped and he was like he was like do that again
I might talk, but I want it to just be mindless drivel to him, nothing super meaningful, not clearly directed at him.
I was still nice to her, but I was not touching her anymore, not giving her thanks.
whoo that's a much bigger reinforcer than them for any treat that I've tried so far the only thing that would beat it is if I could get them to play really hard
first time right good boy good job okay so then i can send him back out because he's interested
if you have a dog that really likes contact like Bo does, then you have a way to reward him actually with the contact by teaching him an upies command
But taking treats and kind of looking and engaging with me a little bit is better than nothing
know you just love on him and stuff he eats that up so picking rewards that are individualistic
that honestly right now for them the biggest reinforcer for them is to just interact with somebody and get petted and like jump up on somebody
How it looks, dog by dog
Finn
Finn is a genetically nervous retriever who freezes when a hand comes toward him. Ball, tug and food do not land. Prey switches him on hardest, but it cannot be produced on cue, so the trainer sets it aside: a reward you cannot summon is not a tool. His answer is to run with Finn, leash on, at a jog. Then he tags a touch and a bit of play onto the run, and makes the run what a sit, down or recall buys. By the end of that session Finn takes off the moment the trainer starts to run, and the trainer can use more pressure without fallout. On a later hike, water turns out to be another thing Finn loves.
On film
i finally figured out a way to reward him consistently because that's been my challenge with him, is getting him opened enough with me to properly, like, reward him
start up a little bit of personal play with Finn. So you can see he kind of freezes up, he's like, when I go to grab at him, instead of activating play drive there, he's becoming frightened and feeling like I'm going to try to do something to him, he's feeling locked up. right so I'm trying to change that feeling from that to a feeling of play
he's getting where like he sees it as like the response he wants when i go to run at first when i went to run he kind of lagged behind like oh you know like what are we doing and now i when i go to run he's like oh yeah and starts running right he takes off immediately
and that enables me to make it harder and use negative reinforcement without huge fallout out from finn
I don't know if Finn likes the water. He is a retriever. Look at him. Look at him go. I think he likes it.
Kodak
On Kodak's first public walk he wants to bolt and does not trust the trainer at all. Play, the trainer says, would be panic-inducing. The rewards he uses are freedom on a long line and a jog straight after the release word, which both lowers stress and charges the release. He argues at length against comforting a scared dog, and also against the 'you're rewarding the fear' explanation. For Kodak right now, loud praise and touch are aversive, and the trainer admits the pull to reach out anyway. A few weeks later, on a low-key session, he brings a ball, and Kodak turns out to love it. He drops the plan and just plays. His lesson for owners: take the toys and try them.
On film
Like if I tried to play with him right now. Oh, oh, that would be panic inducing for Kodak. He would be scared to death if I tried to play with him right now based on how he's interacting with me.
so now we're incorporating the exercise here come on going for a little run here getting him going good job bud good job good job releasing some some happy chemicals there
super often when you're like doing these kinds of rehabilitations like you have it you you might have this temptation to like love on them and tell them it's okay and look like i'm not one of those trainers gonna tell you like oh like you're rewarding the nervousness that is bull shark bull shark it's false
even me as a professional dog trainer who has spent a lot of time and effort learning how and rehabilitating dogs like this, I I had a strong temptation to reach out and touch him and praise him. And yet, that would have been strongly counterproductive.
he's just staring the ball down waiting for me to throw it he doesn't care that it's hot he doesn't care that i'm weird to him
Lola
On Lola's first day her trainer teaches no commands. He works on making leash pressure mean something good and on installing 'okay', which he pays by letting her run. He will not pet her: for a terrified dog who does not like the touch, petting stops being a reward. Mid-program Lola's commands are excellent, but she is still closed off. He says he has to find whatever opens her up, even if it is two hours of sitting in a room cuddling, because if she cannot open up around him he cannot teach her to open up around anyone.
On film
Now I'm not going to touch her because, um, you know, sometimes people think, oh, that's a nervous dog, you'll make her feel better. The thing is, if they're terrified and don't like the pet, the pet goes from a reward to actively either negatively reinforcing or turns into a positive point of view because you're adding in the pets, right?
so that was actually really good for me because the second I said okay then I let her run so it made it very clear
Main thing is I need to find something that just really opens her up. If I have to, I just have to sit.
if she can't open up around me, I can't teach her to open her up. I cannot teach her to open up around other people, which could be a real problem.
Jack
Jack is essentially feral and afraid of people. His trainer removes himself as a stimulus: talk that is 'mindless drivel' not aimed at Jack, no petting, no pressure, and whole walks nearly silent. Play would be 'super powerful', but Jack will not play yet and has taken few treats. The only currency is being left alone to explore, and the trainer waits for the first sign of a normal dog before offering the ball.
On film
I might talk, but I want it to just be mindless drivel to him, nothing super meaningful, not clearly directed at him.
see if I can get him to play play would be super powerful he's not going to play with me right now
would just kind of like keep walking um and if he got freaked out by something i would just kind of like look at him for a second and then just be like all righty then
Anna
Anna is nervous of new things, and a placemat is new. Her handler first gets her into a good headspace, then stays kind but stops petting and talking, so Anna faces the mat on her own instead of leaning on the handler for reassurance.
On film
And we'll probably stop padding the single bed so that she can get used to it on her own.
I was still nice to her, but I was not touching her anymore, not giving her thanks.
Josi
Josi ignores treats. Her trainer tells the owner that people and petting are the biggest reinforcer she has, bigger than any treat tried. Only hard play would beat it, so play is being built alongside.
On film
whoo that's a much bigger reinforcer than them for any treat that I've tried so far the only thing that would beat it is if I could get them to play really hard
Rocky
Rocky's currency is sniffing. On a long trail walk the trainer says the release is a much bigger reward outdoors, because there is somewhere interesting to go. At the owner lesson he explains the recall: paid by sending Rocky straight back to the thing he wanted.
On film
This is way more entertaining to him, so the release is a much bigger reward here than it was at the house because he has somewhere interesting to go and something interesting to sniff.
first time right good boy good job okay so then i can send him back out because he's interested
Bo
Bo has little interest in the ball but loves contact. His trainer turns that into a reward. Jumping up is punished every other time but put on a cue ('uppies'), so asking for it becomes something Bo will work for.
On film
if you have a dog that really likes contact like Bo does, then you have a way to reward him actually with the contact by teaching him an upies command
Punish it every other time, right? It's not allowed, but in that certain circumstance where you ask for it, that's going to be rewarding to him as well.
Bullet
Back at Lake Benson, where his day one was filmed, Bullet's handler offers the ball twice and Bullet ignores it. He names what pays instead: Bullet likes to run, and the requirement is only that he can reward him somehow.
On film
had a hard time getting him interested in in the ball, but I mean He likes to run so As long as I can reward him somehow
Louie
At a new handler's first meeting with Louie, ball, rope and a long line all fail. He is too interested in everything else, and the line touching him bothers him. The handler concludes that play is not available yet and that ordinary walks have to come first.
On film
this is early times with Louie so we're still figuring him out I think I'm gonna have to take him on some walks first before I get him to really engage with me on on this level
Astro
On a walk after Astro has bitten him more than once that day, the trainer puts him on a 30-foot flexi so he can go do things and relax around the handler, and says the next goal is to unlock play, 'the best possible thing' he could do with him. Play is the reward still to be found, not one already in hand.
On film
to hopefully try to give him a little bit more freedom so that he can go do stuff
I'm going to see if I can unlock play with him because that would be the best possible thing that we could do.
Beo
The trainer starts walks with sniffing before any obedience, and names it as Beo's top reward: what he loves most is 'the sniffies', so sniffing is what the work pays in.
On film
to start with the sniffies. Don't get them out into obedience right away. Let them acclimate
dog like this dude like what does he love the most he loves the sniffies
Callie
Callie is neither treat nor toy motivated, and the handler says so: 'a little hard, but it's not impossible'. Early on the handler gives no formal commands and just tries to get her into a game. In a Short a tug and a toy are offered, she declines, and the handler names what she does enjoy: being out in nature and being petted.
On film
I'm not giving her any formal commands yet.
here. Callie, let's go. Good girl. She's not very treat motivated or toy motivated, which is a little hard, but it's not impossible. And so the way we do loose leash walking, actually, let me start another video.
want a tug you want a toy do you like toys oh she grabbed it nope she said nothing she enjoys being now in nature and she enjoys being pet she enjoys getting pet and there we go you should be able to
Irwin
With Irwin not ready to play the way the trainer would like, the first rung is smaller: taking treats and looking at and engaging with the handler a little, as the place to start and work up from.
On film
Right now he's not ready for me to really get him to start playing like I would like.
But taking treats and kind of looking and engaging with me a little bit is better than nothing
So we're going to start there and try to work our way up
Kalypso
At an owner lesson, a treat Kalypso finally eats after a leash-pressure rep is greeted as 'a good sign'. In a later lesson on the 'out', the trainer makes the general point behind it: a dog has to want the toy before you can teach anything with it, and Kalypso now wants it enough.
On film
release her good girl oh she ate it oh wow wow that's good that's a good sign yeah i think it's
right they have to want it for you to teach you out which she wants it enough to teach you out
Levi
The trainer tells Levi's owners that part of the work is giving the dog a reason to comply, or the response slows or stops. For Levi he found two things: being released to sniff on walks, and being rubbed all over after a command. His rule is to pick rewards that are individual to each dog.
On film
actually part of the behaviors with these dogs is giving them a reason to do it because if
know you just love on him and stuff he eats that up so picking rewards that are individualistic
Major
Major's first walk opens with the search: toy, treat, pets. He refuses the treats and takes the petting, and the trainer then says why he is here - he is nervous, and the plan is exposure to the outside world.
On film
you like treats no but you like pets you like pets good boy major good boy you're so handsome
he's experiencing nervousness. And so we're just going to expose him to the outside world.
Milo
The trainer tells the owner that no treat he has tried beats contact: meeting someone, being petted, jumping up. Only hard play would beat it, and that is taking longer to build, so he trains with the reinforcer that works now rather than waiting for the ideal one.
On film
that honestly right now for them the biggest reinforcer for them is to just interact with somebody and get petted and like jump up on somebody and be like whoo that's a much bigger reinforcer than them for any treat that I've tried so far the only thing that would beat it is if I could get them to play really
Penny
Penny will not play with the tug that day, so Kelton switches the reward to a piece of food and carries on ('dog trainers fail'), because the session's work still has to get done.
On film
guess our reward today is just a piece since I can't get you to play with the
okay come on penny come on come on but we still have to do work we have to get things done come on
Thumper
A whole session given to re-engaging a distracted Thumper before other training. Gemma brings a tug, a squeaky starfish, his favourite donut and a ball, and works through them while he ignores her for the smells.
On film
all righty this is part two of playing with thumper trying to re-engage him i have a tug toy
Thumper. Oh, and I also have a ball. Look, Thumpy. He ain't worried about me. He said,
Why it works
As the trainers explain it: learning needs a consequence the dog values, and a frightened dog cannot value the usual ones - food is refused, play would frighten him, and a stranger's touch or loud praise is itself something to escape (Kodak, Lola), which is why comforting fails rather than because it 'rewards the fear'. Whether touch rewards or punishes is decided by the particular dog (Finn's second lesson). Movement is a way in because a moderate jog changes the dog's state directly - the trainers' 'happy chemicals' - and needs no trust (Finn, Kodak); once a reward exists, other things can be attached to it (touch, play, the release word) and it can pay for obedience, which lets pressure be used without fallout (Finn). A reward has to be summonable on cue to be a tool (Finn's prey drive is not). What opens a dog can change: Kodak's ball was unavailable on his first walk and decisive weeks later.
On film
it doesn't make sense behaviorally because it's actually an aversive right so the the definition of something that's aversive is something that you know like it is it is punishing to you right it makes you want to to get away from that thing
if you take a look at the evolutionary history of humans and of dogs both were built to to run um and so like don't need to do like a like a hard sprint just like a trot or even a jog
i'm tagging things with those happy chemicals by doing personal play a little bit and then running right and so tagging those two things together
he's interested in that but that's the that's the the highest the highest level that'll start them up the fastest but it's not really i haven't been able to get it where it's something that's totally under my control circumstantially so it's less useful for the training
Inferred
The physiology ('happy chemicals', a jog's effect on mood) is the trainers' explanation; Kodak's trainer cites a paper he says is linked in a video description, which has not been checked. The film shows behaviour - dogs who start running eagerly and tolerate more work - not the mechanism.
Where the trainers differ
Touch: reward or aversive?
One view
Withhold petting and praise from a frightened dog who does not trust you; it is aversive
On film
Now I'm not going to touch her because, um, you know, sometimes people think, oh, that's a nervous dog, you'll make her feel better. The thing is, if they're terrified and don't like the pet, the pet goes from a reward to actively either negatively reinforcing or turns into a positive point of view because you're adding in the pets, right?
Another view
For some nervous dogs touch is the best reward there is - use it
On film
Main thing is I need to find something that just really opens her up. If I have to, I just have to sit.
somebody was like is petting a dog a punishment or a reinforcement and the answer is like depends on the dog neither it just depends it could either be like a really good reinforcement like right now i'm training a golden retriever who's nervous the first time i met him he ran away and as he was running i like brushed his chin and he like ran and he stopped and he was like he was like do that again
How to read it
Not a disagreement about principle - all three say it depends on whether this dog wants it - but the same act is withheld for one nervous dog and offered as the whole plan for another.
Does comforting a frightened dog reward the fear?
One view
No - 'rewarding the nervousness' makes no sense behaviourally; the reason not to comfort is that it is aversive to a dog who does not trust you
On film
super often when you're like doing these kinds of rehabilitations like you have it you you might have this temptation to like love on them and tell them it's okay and look like i'm not one of those trainers gonna tell you like oh like you're rewarding the nervousness that is bull shark bull shark it's false
How to read it
Kodak's trainer rejects the common trainer claim outright and substitutes a different reason for not comforting. Nobody on film argues the other side, but it is the explanation many owners have been given elsewhere.
Common owner mistakes
- Comforting a frightened dog with petting and loud praise when he does not want it.
On film
doing a loud noise lots of oh my god praising him look at that scared the fudge out of him right good job he doesn't like that he's scared of me right now
Watch at 30:42 ↗ - Assuming a nervous dog will not play and never offering the toys.
On film
Don't just assume that, oh, well, you know, they're kind of like fearful or they're kind of nervous so they won't do it. You don't know that. They might do it.
Watch at 7:49 ↗ - Relying on a reward you cannot produce when you need it.
On film
he's interested in that but that's the that's the the highest the highest level that'll start them up the fastest but it's not really i haven't been able to get it where it's something that's totally under my control circumstantially so it's less useful for the training
Watch at 17:09 ↗
Questions owners ask
My dog won't take food when he's nervous. How do I reward him?
The trainers look for something else he will accept. With Finn, who refused food and froze at play, the trainer ran with him at a jog on the leash and made the run the reward. Kodak's trainer did the same straight after the release word. For other dogs it is sniffing (Rocky), contact (Josi, Bo) or the ball, once he finds it (Kodak).
On film
I'm like, all right, well, you know what can change an emotional state that you don't really have that much control over, hopefully, is I'm just going to go straight physiological and just start running, and you have to run with me because I have a leash.
first time right good boy good job okay so then i can send him back out because he's interested
Am I rewarding his fear if I comfort him?
Kodak's trainer says that explanation is false. His reason not to comfort a frightened dog is different: for a dog who does not trust you yet, your touch and loud praise are something he wants to get away from, so they make things worse.
On film
super often when you're like doing these kinds of rehabilitations like you have it you you might have this temptation to like love on them and tell them it's okay and look like i'm not one of those trainers gonna tell you like oh like you're rewarding the nervousness that is bull shark bull shark it's false
it doesn't make sense behaviorally because it's actually an aversive right so the the definition of something that's aversive is something that you know like it is it is punishing to you right it makes you want to to get away from that thing
So should I never pet my nervous dog?
It depends on the dog, the trainers say. If he shrinks from it, hold off (Lola, Kodak). If he seeks it, it may be your best reward - Josi's trainer found petting beat any treat, and Lola's trainer was ready to spend two hours cuddling if that opened her up.
On film
somebody was like is petting a dog a punishment or a reinforcement and the answer is like depends on the dog neither it just depends it could either be like a really good reinforcement like right now i'm training a golden retriever who's nervous the first time i met him he ran away and as he was running i like brushed his chin and he like ran and he stopped and he was like he was like do that again
whoo that's a much bigger reinforcer than them for any treat that I've tried so far the only thing that would beat it is if I could get them to play really hard
My fearful dog has never played. Should I bother trying?
Yes. Kodak's trainer thought play would panic Kodak on his first walk; a few weeks later he brought a ball and Kodak would not take his eyes off it. His advice is to take the toys every time and try them.
On film
This is why you should always take some stuff with you and try it, right? Because it can totally change your approach. Try tug, try ball, try stuff.
The lesson
The goal
The owner can find a reward a nervous dog will accept, tell when touch is helping or hurting, and use exercise as a reward and a marker charger.
Learn first
The drill
As run with Finn: on leash, break into a jog with the dog; when he runs with you willingly, add a brief touch or a moment of play just before the run; then ask for a known command and make the run the release ('i ask him to do something and then boom he gets that'). As run with Kodak: say the release word, then jog immediately, to charge the release.
Watch out for
- Reaching out to pet a dog who is shrinking from you.
- Loud, excited praise for a frightened dog.
- Waiting for the dog's favourite thing (a squirrel) instead of building one you control.
- Giving up on toys after one refusal.
Check yourself
Your nervous dog won't eat outside and flinches when you reach for him. Name two things you could try as a reward.