The answer
Yes, and the trainers treat it as one of the main ways a correction goes wrong. On film they say a correction teaches whatever the dog links it to, and the handler decides what that link will be. Six dogs show the same rule in different situations. In a two-dog house, a correction given silently while one dog is mouthing the other can be blamed on the other dog: 'what could happen is he could think Simba did that', and the trainer warns that done the wrong way 'you can start a dogfight' (Cosmo). At Murphy's go-home the trainer tapped the collar while two dogs were face to face, there was a short clash, and he blamed himself: 'I did it when they were close, face to face. So he took it as coming from him'. With a dog-reactive husky around dogs he was uneasy about, the trainer gave a small signal on the lead instead of the collar, because 'he could take it as coming from them'. A retriever's trainer does not use the collar when the dog runs toward people, because 'what you can teach them is that the people are bad not the action'. For Bo, the trainer's theory is that punishment given hours after the event, again and again in the same crate, got pinned on the crate, and Bo began growling at anyone who came near it. What the trainers do about it, as they say on film: the word comes before the collar, so the dog knows the correction came from the person ('there he knows it was you not simba'); the correction is given without emotion, so the dog puts it down to his own behaviour ('i don't want him to think it's coming from me'); the timing matches the act, not the moment the dogs meet nose to nose; a lead signal rather than the collar is used when the dog has done nothing wrong and is only uneasy; and a place the dog has to live in, such as his crate, is never used for punishment. One step is our inference and was not said on film: all five fixes do the same job, which is to make one thing the most obvious cause of the correction, and that thing is the dog's own act.
What to do
Say the word before the collar, every time, so the dog knows the correction came from you ('you don't like just hit the e-collar without saying a word first because then the dog's like what did i do right', watch 10:56). Don't correct while two dogs are face to face; with Murphy the order is separate them with the short lead and 'nope' first, and the e-collar only after that ('you won't use the e-collar first', watch 84:01). Keep your face and voice neutral when you correct (watch 05:50). Never send the dog to his crate as a punishment, and don't use timeouts in cases like this (watch 09:52; watch 09:56).
What the trainers say
So, in this case, if you just hit the e-collar without anything while Cosmo's doing his, like, biting Simba, what could happen is he could think Simba did that.
When you say the word and then the e-collar comes after, there he knows it was you not simba
The reason I say we're going to work on that is because if you do it the wrong way, you can start a dogfight.
Yeah, I should have, if I had done it when he was sniffing, it probably would have been fine, but I did it when they were close, face to face. So he took it as coming from him, yeah.
there is he didn't react and then also the other thing is if he was feeling at all like pressured with the other dogs and i tapped the e-collar he could take it as coming from them so i just kind of just did like oh it was this right and just locked it temporarily so he felt like a tiny tug and then came back just as like a kind of a signal instead of like um negative reinforcement right yeah because he's not doing anything bad right now
so the big thing is just don't be mean when you do it right don't really show any emotion in general because i don't want him to think it's coming from me i want him to think that's just bad behavior that doesn't work for him
if you e-collar everything they run up to them to the car then you create a different thing it's not neutrality it's fear and so it's just all about what you want to create so like with people i don't e-collar when they're running over the person because what you can teach them is that the people are bad not the action
because if you non-contingently punish a dog in the same area over and over again you know hours after the event happened he's not gonna understand why you're treating him that way and he's going to connect it to the only thing that he can see as a common denominator which in this case is what the crate
that's happened to him so we can't send him to the crate for punishment we can't act like these places are punishments for him we don't do time out with the dogs in these cases that's a very very very very bad idea I want to emphasize that
How it looks, dog by dog
Cosmo
Two dogs in one house. On walks Cosmo mouths his housemate Simba to make him stay put, which the trainer reads as an obsessive correction rather than aggression. At the go-home he explains why the fix has to be done in a set order: a correction with no word first, landing while Cosmo is mouthing Simba, could be read by Cosmo as Simba's doing, and that is how a fight starts. The word comes first so the correction is plainly from the person. This is also the lesson where the new two-marker system is explained ('nope' for behaviour never wanted, 'and' for breaking a command).
On film
doing that uh cosmo will do this thing where he starts like kind of biting him a little bit it's not like an aggressive bite or anything it's more of like he's trying to correct them
So, in this case, if you just hit the e-collar without anything while Cosmo's doing his, like, biting Simba, what could happen is he could think Simba did that.
you know about like i said where you have your like chain of events you don't like just hit the e-collar without saying a word first because then the dog's like what did i do right
Murphy
A three-dog house with a new baby. When the other dogs came in at the go-home there was a short clash, and Kelton blamed his own timing on camera: he had tapped the collar while Murphy and the other dog were face to face, so Murphy took it as coming from that dog. Murphy's case shows the rule going wrong and the trainer owning the mistake.
On film
I tapped the e-collar at the wrong time.
Yeah, I should have, if I had done it when he was sniffing, it probably would have been fine, but I did it when they were close, face to face. So he took it as coming from him, yeah.
That kind of thing and then the other thing is you won't use the e-collar first, right? You'll use it later on
Astro
A dog-aggressive husky at his go-home walk in a busy park. When Astro was slow on a recall near other dogs, Kelton locked the lead for a moment so Astro felt a small tug, instead of tapping the collar. He gave two reasons on camera: Astro hadn't done anything bad, and a tap while he felt uneasy near the other dogs might be blamed on them. He passed several dogs without reacting after that.
On film
there is he didn't react and then also the other thing is if he was feeling at all like pressured with the other dogs and i tapped the e-collar he could take it as coming from them
leaves it alone that's the kind of reaction i want to see it's neutral
Chunk
A bully-type dog on his first outing off the property, who freezes, flops down or thrashes when pressure arrives. The trainer's rule is to give the pressure with no emotion, so Chunk puts it down to his own behaviour rather than to the person, and to keep walking so avoiding doesn't work. He adds that the aim is to stop the behaviour and then let the dog open up again, not to shut him down.
On film
so the big thing is just don't be mean when you do it right don't really show any emotion in general because i don't want him to think it's coming from me i want him to think that's just bad behavior that doesn't work for him
Thing is I don't wanna repress, right? I don't wanna repress. this is not what we're doing it's just punishing of behavior and then be like okay good we're gonna open up now
Simba
A friendly retriever who runs up to people. Two different trainers on two refresher sessions refuse to use the collar on the approach itself, because the dog could learn that people (or cars) are bad rather than that running up is. They use 'let's go' and a turn away every time a person appears, so seeing someone comes to mean checking back with the handler. In a Home Depot session a third version shows up: Simba had started to expect the collar and link it to the down, which the trainer calls 'a really bad idea' and plans to proof out. Across Simba's file, four trainers state the same principle in four different situations, and none of them refers to another.
On film
if you e-collar everything they run up to them to the car then you create a different thing it's not neutrality it's fear
first way which is the way I don't do it is where you you eat collar every time they try to go up to a person but it is too much room for confusion with that
is eventually they associate it and so you don't risk confusing the dog at all
i actually panicked a little bit there and then like i didn't do like any form of negative reinforcement because he uh right there predicted the e-collar he associated the e-collar with down which is a really bad idea
Bo
The same rule, seen from the other side: the story of how a place got blamed. Kelton's theory, stated as a theory, is that Bo was punished in his crate again and again, hours after whatever he had done, so the only thing he could connect it to was the crate. He began growling at people who came near it. From that come two fixed rules: the crate is never a punishment, and timeouts are 'a very very very very bad idea' in cases like his. The crate work itself is done with people Bo has trouble with, who stay put and ask for obedience inside the crate, so the crate becomes a place where he cooperates instead of a place where he fights.
On film
because if you non-contingently punish a dog in the same area over and over again you know hours after the event happened he's not gonna understand why you're treating him that way and he's going to connect it to the only thing that he can see as a common denominator which in this case is what the crate
time um but it's we cannot ever ever i need to be very clear we can't ever use it as a punishment
that's happened to him so we can't send him to the crate for punishment we can't act like these places are punishments for him we don't do time out with the dogs in these cases that's a very very very very bad idea I want to emphasize that
Why it works
Stated on film: a dog connects a correction to whatever he can see at that moment, or whatever the corrections have in common. If a correction comes long after the act and always in one place, 'he's going to connect it to the only thing that he can see as a common denominator' (watch 02:53). If it comes while another dog is right in front of him, it can be blamed on that dog (watch 12:01; watch 41:31; watch 33:38). If it comes as he approaches a person, the person can become the bad thing (watch 13:25). A word said just before the correction tells him where it came from: 'there he knows it was you not simba' (watch 12:20). A neutral manner points the blame at his own act instead of at the handler (watch 05:50). Our inference, not said on film: these are all one mechanism, association by whatever is closest in time and most obvious, and each fix makes the dog's own act the closest and most obvious cause. The Simba store moment (watch 13:55), where the collar became linked to the down, shows the same mechanism attaching the correction to a position, and connects this concept to false-reps and to dont-poison-the-command, where Deuce's trainer warns that a collar landing on the word teaches the dog 'sit's a bad word' (watch 00:45).
Common owner mistakes
- Punishing a dog in his crate, long after the event, again and again (the trainer's theory of how Bo's crate aggression started; a theory, not the family's account).
On film
So he's been non-contingently punished in the crate.
Watch at 2:42 ↗ - Using the crate or a timeout as a punishment.
On film
that's happened to him so we can't send him to the crate for punishment
Watch at 9:52 ↗ - Correcting with the collar and no word first.
On film
you know about like i said where you have your like chain of events you don't like just hit the e-collar without saying a word first because then the dog's like what did i do right
Watch at 10:56 ↗ - Correcting while the two dogs are face to face. Here it was the trainer's own mistake, shown to the family as a warning.
On film
I tapped the e-collar at the wrong time.
Watch at 40:57 ↗
Questions owners ask
Why does the trainer say the word before using the collar?
So the dog knows the correction came from the person, and what it was for. In a two-dog home, the trainer explains that a silent correction while Cosmo was mouthing Simba could be read as Simba's doing; with the word first, 'there he knows it was you not simba'.
On film
When you say the word and then the e-collar comes after, there he knows it was you not simba
Can correcting my dog around another dog make them fight?
The trainers say it can. Cosmo's trainer warns that done the wrong way 'you can start a dogfight', and at Murphy's go-home a short clash followed a collar tap given while the dogs were face to face. The trainer blamed his own timing and said it would probably have been fine if he had done it while Murphy was sniffing.
On film
The reason I say we're going to work on that is because if you do it the wrong way, you can start a dogfight.
Yeah, I should have, if I had done it when he was sniffing, it probably would have been fine, but I did it when they were close, face to face.
Should I correct my dog for running up to people?
Simba's trainers didn't use the collar on the approach itself, because the dog could learn 'that the people are bad not the action'. They used 'let's go' and a turn away every time a person appeared, so seeing someone came to mean checking back in with the handler.
On film
if you e-collar everything they run up to them to the car then you create a different thing it's not neutrality it's fear and so it's just all about what you want to create so like with people i don't e-collar when they're running over the person because what you can teach them is that the people are bad not the action
Is it okay to put my dog in his crate as a punishment or a timeout?
Not for a dog like Bo, whose trainer calls it 'a very very very very bad idea' and believes punishment in the crate is what made Bo defend it. The crate has to stay a place with no punishment in it.
On film
that's happened to him so we can't send him to the crate for punishment we can't act like these places are punishments for him we don't do time out with the dogs in these cases that's a very very very very bad idea I want to emphasize that
Does it matter how I look and sound when I correct?
Chunk's trainer says it does: no meanness and no emotion, so the dog 'think[s] that's just bad behavior' rather than that the correction came from the person.
On film
so the big thing is just don't be mean when you do it right don't really show any emotion in general because i don't want him to think it's coming from me i want him to think that's just bad behavior that doesn't work for him
The lesson
The goal
Deliver a correction so the dog links it to his own act, not to another dog, a person, a place or the handler's mood.
Learn first
The drill
As run at Murphy's go-home: the dog wears a short traffic lead indoors. At the first sign of trouble with the other dog, the handler separates them with a pop and 'nope', repeats it, and only then uses the e-collar, never while the dogs are face to face. After that, a disappointed tone until the dog stops completely, then a release (watch 84:01; 62:58). As run with Astro: when the dog is only uneasy near other dogs and has done nothing wrong, a brief lock of the lead as a signal instead of the collar (watch 33:29).
Watch out for
- Collar with no word first (watch 10:56).
- Correcting while the dogs are face to face (watch 41:31).
- Showing anger when correcting (watch 05:50).
- Punishing hours later, in the same place (watch 02:53).
Check yourself
Your two dogs start to squabble. What do you do first, and when does the collar come in?